Don’t see why not.   3/4 wl long and coil has 3 x Xl of 40 mx.
3rd band’s free.
RH

Sent from my i-Thingamajig

> On Jul 14, 2022, at 3:51 PM, Jeff Greer <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> It might work on 15, too...
>  
> From: BVARC <[email protected]> on behalf of Rick Hiller via BVARC 
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 3:30 PM
> To: Larry K5LJ <[email protected]>
> Cc: Rick Hiller <[email protected]>; BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB 
> <[email protected]>; TDXS List <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [BVARC] Seeking Antenna Design Info
>  
> Very cool to see a real world example of what I was researching.
> Tnx.  Larry.....Rick. W5RH
> 
> Sent from my i-Thingamajig
> 
> On Jul 14, 2022, at 2:18 PM, Larry K5LJ <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> Now and then we all have these “DUH” moments. Over 20 years ago I made a 
>> loaded 160M vertical with the loading coil at 33’ (the length of 2” aluminum 
>> pipe I had available at the time) and a whip on top for another 18’ (total 
>> height ~52’). Inductance was chosen to resonant the whole system at the low 
>> end of 160m. Works like a champ.  Then I discovered that the antenna worked 
>> great on 40M as well. The “DUH” moment: 33’ is a quarter wave on 40M. The 
>> inductance was sufficient to isolate the lower 33’ section. Serendipity is a 
>> wonderful thing!
>> Larry K5LJ
>>  
>> From: Rick Hiller via BVARC
>> Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2022 6:17 PM
>> To: BRAZOS VALLEY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB ; TDXS List
>> Cc: Rick Hiller
>> Subject: Re: [BVARC] Seeking Antenna Design Info
>>  
>> Short answer to my design dilemma     or     "how to kill a hot Sunday 
>> afternoon"
>> 
>> Focus is -- Shortened dual band dipoles that use a coil for loading a 
>> lowband wire and using the same coil to "trap" RF into the higher band, 
>> inner portion of the wire.   [I was wondering how this worked, as JP had 
>> sent me a EFHW design using a single coil using this trick]  
>> 
>> The dual band antenna consists of a higher band antenna wire (i.e. 40 
>> meters) with coils at the ends of this portion of the wire.  Short end wires 
>> are added on the outside of the coils to get final resonance on the lower 
>> band.   The coils play the part of low band loading coils and the part of 
>> "traps" for the higher band RF.    Why?
>> 
>> The coils are positioned at the ends of the center, 1/2 wl, higher band wire 
>> portion, which is a standing wave high voltage point and the XL of the coil 
>> is designed to be quite high to stop any high band RF flowing outside the 
>> high band inner wire...making a resonant dipole for 40 mx.    When using the 
>> antenna as the longer 80 meter wire, the coil has less XL  (XL = 2PI F L), 
>> and since the coil is within the standing wave sinusoidal curve, it acts as 
>> a loading coil.  RF will continue to flow out to the very end of the antenna 
>> wire thus providing resonance at the lower frequency.  The antenna, of 
>> course, has the benefit (to some) of being shorter, physically, due to the 
>> loading effect of the coils.
>> 
>> The coils must have sufficient windings to produce the correct XL for each 
>> band and they must be positioned properly within the wire for this dual band 
>> system to work.
>> 
>> References:   --Alpha Delta' DX-CC and EE antennas use this design with 
>> their ISO-RES coils.
>> --In Bill Orr''s Antenna Handbook 1979, he gives 2 example antennas -- 20/80 
>> and 40/80, which I modeled and they work out just great -- nice dual band 
>> wires.  Orr also comments that this dual function coil trick was first 
>> referenced in 1926 by the Bureau of Standards, but I could not find any such 
>> publication about it.
>> --In Pop Com Feb 1988, W9INN built a 160 and 80 sloper vertical using this 
>> trick (thanks to Matt, KM5VI).  
>> So.......y'all probably knew all this, but I am still learning.  Thanks for 
>> reading or deleting.  I've had fun!   Time for dinner.....       73...RH
>>  
>>  
>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 11:38 AM Rick Hiller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I appreciate everyone's comments and direction.  I knew if I pondered the 
>> question long enough and with the help of a few antenna craftsmen the answer 
>> has come to me.  It's nice to have knowledgeable and interested friends.
>> 
>> For others, discovery is a light going off or a bell dinging when you get 
>> the answer you seek.  For me, most of the time, it is either a Homer Simpson 
>> "DUH" or  a 2 x 4 to the side of the head.   It's was no different this 
>> time.  The answer to be told soon after a few EZNEC runs.
>> 
>> Thanks for all of your comments.
>> 
>> Regards...Rick   W5RH 
>>  
>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 8:57 PM Rick Hiller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Loading coils used also as traps are my focus.  Alpha Delta uses what they 
>> call an Iso-Res  Isolation (trap) and Resonator (loading coil) in their 
>> antennas.   Bill Orr mentions a few antennas in his books that use them, but 
>> they are cookbook examples for building and nothing on the design of the 
>> dual function coil.
>> 
>> Can any one provide me with a book reference or a URL etc. that might 
>> provide clues as to the design, building and measurement of such devices?
>> 
>> I realize that certain coils have a self-resonance and I can find info on 
>> that, but there are no references that apply this self-resonance to an 
>> antenna design.
>> 
>> Contact me direct, if you wish.   [email protected]
>> 
>> 
>> More detail if you wish to read about it..............JP sent me a design of 
>> a shortened EFHW for 80 and 40 that uses a 110 uH coil near the end of the 
>> antenna wire that provides loading for 80 MX and traps 40 MX energy, thus 
>> making the antenna dual band.  I modeled it in EZNEC based on the basic 
>> design, and lo and behold the antenna when doing an SWR sweep does indeed 
>> resonant on 80 and 40.  Displaying the currents on the wire show that it is 
>> used at full length on 80 and stops at the coil on 40.
>> I think I am missing something in my research.  TNX for reading....any help 
>> appreciated. 
>> 
>> TNX ES 73....W5RH
>> Rick Hiller 
>> e-mail:     [email protected] choke
>> Cell:        832-474-3713
>> Physical: 9031 Troulon Drive
>>                Houston, TX 77036
>>  
>>  
>> -- 
>> Rick Hiller  
>> e-mail:     [email protected]
>> Cell:        832-474-3713
>> Physical: 9031 Troulon Drive
>>                Houston, TX 77036
>>  
>>  
>> -- 
>> Rick Hiller  
>> e-mail:     [email protected]
>> Cell:        832-474-3713
>> Physical: 9031 Troulon Drive
>>                Houston, TX 77036
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