I'm excited to try out 3.0 but please, PLEASE don't make Cake into
anything like Symfony! Do. Not. Like.

I agree that model validation could use some freshening, although I
don't personally have any great ideas for doing that.

I don't understand the desire to use parts of one framework with
another, btw. Or even using the model layer on its own. I know I may
just be missing something but it seems bizarre to me.

On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 5:50 PM, the_woodsman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I've worked with Cake since the 1.1 release, and recently I've worked a lot
> with Symfony, and on larger scale apps, which has helped me understand the
> strengths and weaknesess of both frameworks.
>
> So, a chance to express an opinion on the future of Cake? How could I
> possibly resist :)
>
> (Disclaimer: All of this is just my opinion /POV, not preaching here...)
>
> Obviously it's important not to throw the baby out with the bath water -
> DRY, Convention over config, auto-magic/scaffold features, etc are some of
> the key features that differentiate Cake from other frameworks, and losing
> this for the sake of a design pattern or a ridiculous amount of abstraction
> shouldn't be risked.
>
>  * A clearer Dependency Injection model for core classes. I didn't think
> Cake had anything like this then I read a post on overriding the Request
> class, and I was like 'is this DI?' SF2 has a DI component that can be
> reused for this I think.
>
>  * Appropriate use of arrays. There's a time and a place for arrays, and,
> imho, data is a good use, and advanced config is not.
> I love Cake's convention over config approach (vs the bloated yaml files of
> Symfony) but when you *do* need  that config, arrays won't cut-it  for more
> complex stuff.
> The support for ini files in Cake 2 is a great step forward in this, and,
> imho, json, xml, and  ini files should be natively supported for some app
> config, and similar for  value-object creation.
>
>  * Greater modularity - obviously the move to name spaces (and I hope PSR
> standards?) is linked to this.
> I think partitioning the folders as per
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/cake-php/msttsVAG9tI, and
> making the different libraries work independently, would be ideal- why
> shouldn't someone be able to use the SF2 Router and the ZF Controller layer
> and the Cake model layer if that's what works for them? Or migrate their
> enterprise app over to another framework incrementally?
>
> For example, take the model layer-  Imho, the model later is one of Cake's
> best features, and changes should be cautious.
> * Standalone library -  I think being able to use Cake's model layer as a
> stand-alone would massively increase the mind-share of Cake.
>  * OO changes - it's a matter of opinion, but Cake's arrays aren't really a
> massive issue for me. Given you can usually access arrays with object
> syntax, and there's various community behaviors to achieve this effect
> anyway, I don't think this a deal breaker.
>
> Value Objects makes some sense, but I personally hope Cake never goes the
> way of $record->save, and always keeps with $model->save.
> Imho, putting too much DB behaviour into the row-level objects leads to a
> much more complex system, where it's a lot easier to implement poor SQL.
> If people want that approach, don't re-invent the wheel,  Doctrine and
> Propel are mature libs and they don't need any more competitors :)
>
> One places the models could definitely do with a revamp is the setting of
> validation rules.
> Once I'm 4 levels deep into the array config, I wish I was making classes or
> objects or using a separate config format!
>
>
> Okay, sorry for the rant, but I'd be interested  to see how closely my views
> align with the community at large...
>
>
> On Friday, 6 July 2012 03:36:03 UTC+1, José Lorenzo wrote:
>>
>> Since its creation, more than 7 years ago, CakePHP has grown with a life
>> of its own. Its main goal has always been to empower developers with tools
>> that are both easy to learn and use, leverage great libraries requiring low
>> documentation and low dependencies too. We've had several big releases along
>> these years and an ever growing community. Being one of the most popular
>> frameworks out there and probably the first one (!) we have also gotten a
>> lot of criticism from the developer community in general. We have, though,
>> accepted it and learnt from our mistakes to keep building the best PHP
>> framework there is.
>>
>> CakePHP is known for having a very slow pace of adopting new stuff and it
>> has served very well to its community. Back when we were doing version 2.0
>> we decided to hold on version 5.2 of PHP for multiple reasons and despite it
>> didn't let us innovate as much as we wished to, it was an excellent choice
>> given the general environment regarding hosting solutions and general
>> adoption of PHP 5.3. A look back into the past reminded us that we were big
>> innovators in PHP, bringing features to developers that few dreamt possible
>> to do in this language. Now, it's time to look ahead in future and decide on
>> staying in our comfort zone or take back our leading position as innovators.
>>
>> So it is with great excitement that we announce we are putting our our
>> efforts in bringing you the next major release of CakePHP. Version 3.0 will
>> leverage the new features in PHP 5.4 and will include an important change in
>> our models and database system. CakePHP 3.0 will not be ready less than 6 or
>> 8 months and we reckon that, given the rise of cheap cloud hosting solutions
>> and upcoming release of new operating system versions, there is no better
>> time to jump on the most current stable version of PHP.
>>
>> As you may already know, PHP 5.4 offers awesome features that would
>> introduce useful new concepts and interesting solutions to old problems.
>> Closure binding, traits, multibyte support are tools we see of great
>> usefulness for properly implemented advanced framework features we've had in
>> mind for a long time. Also new syntax sugar added to the language will make
>> it more pleasant to write both small and complex applications with the
>> framework and a always welcomed free performance increase.
>>
>> We have a young but already well defined road map for what we want to
>> accomplish in next release and you are invited to contribute and suggest
>> what's next:
>>
>> Drop support for 5.2.x and support 5.4+ only
>> Add proper namespaces for all classes. This will make it easier to reuse
>> classes outside CakePHP and to use external libraries and finally no chances
>> of collisions between your app classes and core ones.
>> Use traits were possible and makes sense
>> Improve bootstrapping process to allow more developer control and better
>> performance
>> Model layer rewrite:
>>
>> Models to return objects from queries
>> Datamapper-like paradigm
>> Richer query API
>> Support for any database type
>> Support for more database drivers both PDO and native
>>
>> Improve Router:
>>
>> Make it faster
>> Remove named parameters
>> Add support for named routes
>> Smarter router prefixes
>> Shorter url syntax
>>
>> As you may imagine most of the time will be spent or rewriting the model
>> layer, but it will also be one of the most powerful features CakePHP 3.0
>> will have. It's new architecture based on PHP 5.4 capabilities will offer an
>> easier and more powerful set of tools to build web applications in no time.
>>
>> If you are already as excited as we are this all this new stuff coming,
>> you definitely should meet us on next CakeFest we'll be talking about the
>> future of CakePHP and hacking our way through to bring you a dev release as
>> soon as possible. Wouldn't it be lovely to attend to awesome talks,
>> workshops and also be part of the group deciding initial architecture for
>> next major version of the framework? Make sure you book your tickets before
>> we run out of them!
>>
>> We're always looking for different people having a vision on software
>> development, are you interested in helping out? There is no better time to
>> start sending patches and become one of the core team!
>
> --
> Our newest site for the community: CakePHP Video Tutorials
> http://tv.cakephp.org
> Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://ask.cakephp.org and help
> others with their CakePHP related questions.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> [email protected] For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php

-- 
Our newest site for the community: CakePHP Video Tutorials 
http://tv.cakephp.org 
Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://ask.cakephp.org and help others 
with their CakePHP related questions.


To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[email protected] For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php

Reply via email to