Thanks for answer, Mark! Cake 3, here we go.
Pray for us :) Nilson On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 5:44 PM, mark_story <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks for asking those questions they are good ones. > > > What are the strategic goals of Cake v3? > > Hopefully I can give some more background information and the prespective > of a project maintainer. > > > Grow adoption of the framework be switching to "more modern" features? > > I can say with some certainty that not supporting PSR-0, composer and > other community standards has made CakePHP seem 'outdated' in more than a > few people's eyes. > > > Do you feel more developers will give it a chance because it supports > features like traits, closures and an object-oriented ORM? > > I see traits and closures as a means to an end. They should not be a > reason to choose a framework, but for some people they are. As a library > developer, they offer some useful ways to allow developers to hook their > logic in and make some ideas easier and more succinct to express. > > > What are the benefits (not features) to devs in v3? > > The new ORM is a big benefit. It is also a big downside. In order to use > Cake3 you need to upgrade, and the upgrade is not a simple one. I totally > understand that it is not an easy upgrade and it will break a ton of user > land code. However, what are the alternatives? We intentionally left the > Model layer alone when developing 2.x as we knew it was a huge undertaking. > 3 years later, here we are and it is still a huge undertaking. If we stick > with the current Model layer for another 3 years I think CakePHP will be > too far behind in mindshare to recover really. > > I think there are other benefits like making it simple to use the huge set > of libraries published on packagist.org. By building the framework around > these tools we make it very clear for new and existing developers how > things should be done. > > > Reading this latest announcement, it seems like v3 just makes changes > for changes sake. > > I'm sorry you feel that way, but I never change things just to change > them. Each change I make to CakePHP is strategic. My goals are generally to > provide an easier to understand, simpler to use, more efficient and faster > tool for people to build web applications with. Keep in mind that I also > use CakePHP, and have applications I'll need to be upgrading as well. > > > All open-source plugins will need heavy re-writes (unlike v1.x -> v2). > > You are right to some degree. I think it depends on the plugin. I had > plugins that needed to be totally re-written for 2.x. > > > Those facts totally negate the "features" of v3 for me and is pretty > demoralizing. I might as well start also considering other frameworks if > I'm being forced to scrap all my current plugin code. If the slate is > clean there is no reason for me *not* to consider other frameworks. Cake > may still end up being the best option, but with previous version changes I > didn't even bother considering the other options because of the relatively > easy migration. > > It is always good to remember once 3.0 is release 2.x won't stop working. > I plan on continuing to do bug fixes and security updates on 2.x as long as > people continue to report issues. All the code you've invested in won't > stop working when we release 3.0. > > -Mark > > > On Sunday, 5 January 2014 19:44:07 UTC-5, bbf wrote: >> >> This is the first time I've read about the reasoning behind the major >> changes to 3.0. (for background I've been coding PHP since 1999, using Cake >> since 2008, and "cakephp" is the only tag I follow on Stackoverflow ;) ) >> >> What are the strategic goals of Cake v3? >> Grow adoption of the framework be switching to "more modern" features? Do >> you feel more developers will give it a chance because it supports features >> like traits, closures and an object-oriented ORM? I'm trying to understand >> why all the breaking changes are being introduced. >> >> >> What are the benefits (not features) to devs in v3? >> 1) Make it faster to develop apps? >> 2) Make it easier to develop apps? >> 3) Make it faster to get started for new-to-Cake devs? >> 4) Increase features for current Cake devs? >> 5) ? >> >> Maybe I'm dense or not understanding the ramifications of the new >> features. Reading this latest announcement, it seems like v3 just makes >> changes for changes sake. You guys all love coding and it's fun to work on >> the latest cool features of PHP -- I get that. You're adding lots of >> "features" that take advantage of new stuff. But how much of it translates >> into actual *net benefits* for current developers? >> >> Will an OO ORM make Cake easier to code? Faster to code? Faster to >> interpret/execute? Do things that were impossible before with the non-OO >> ORM? >> >> You mention stuff like "It's new architecture based on PHP 5.4 >> capabilities will offer an easier and more powerful set of tools to build >> web applications in no time." How do namespaces, traits, and closure >> bindings help a dev "build web applications in no time"? >> >> I've been using Cake since 2008. Cake v3 feels to me like I have to >> re-learn Cake from scratch due to the *huge* amount of breaking changes. It >> feels like v3 is a whole new framework. >> >> All my current apps can't be upgraded. All the custom generic >> components/behaviors/plugins I've written over the years which I use for >> *all* my current/future projects will need to be re-written. All >> open-source plugins will need heavy re-writes (unlike v1.x -> v2). >> >> Those facts totally negate the "features" of v3 for me and is pretty >> demoralizing. I might as well start also considering other frameworks if >> I'm being forced to scrap all my current plugin code. If the slate is >> clean there is no reason for me *not* to consider other frameworks. Cake >> may still end up being the best option, but with previous version changes I >> didn't even bother considering the other options because of the relatively >> easy migration. >> >> >> >> >> -- > Like Us on FaceBook https://www.facebook.com/CakePHP > Find us on Twitter http://twitter.com/CakePHP > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CakePHP" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Like Us on FaceBook https://www.facebook.com/CakePHP Find us on Twitter http://twitter.com/CakePHP --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. 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