Seb, I totally agree with you here, and again I start I never compared CakePHP *TO* a CMS, I only referenced other CMS's where they have a model of users contributing addon's to these systems using their API.
I don't really want to bang on at the point, as someone has already said "Just build it", but I just want to go over it just a little more. What I am now proposing, through the thoughts that you have all expressed here, is to build standard "modules" of code that people can use in their projects. For example, a "user module" we could provide pre-built controllers, models and views that actually consists of say a user MVC, group MVC, permission MVC and profile MVC tied into one package. At the main methods (add, delete, view, edit) plus additional login/logout methods and session handling would be there. However, the great thing about CakePHP is that anyone can come along and either take these and expand upon them, or ignore them totally and build their own solution - as our one might not fit their uses - but I think it would fit into 99% of situations. I'm not talking (at least now) about the whole package, but instead code that people have to still take and with some knowledge integrate into their own applications. Tane On 3/29/07, Seb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Mar 29, 3:44 pm, "Loren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I know the people who developed this framework make me look like a > > bonafide stooge. But all that coding savvy is going to waste if this > > spiffy framework remains an inscrutable tangle of half-baked > > documentation and shallow tutorials. Documentation is no fun (I hate > > writing it, we all hate writing it), but I believe it is KEY to the > > widespread adoption of CakePHP. > > > > Loren > > Ok... we're really getting away from the main thread here... but > somehow I can't help it thinking that in the end... we're pushing that > "killer app" idea somewhere. All this to say that... > > Loren has a good point. I got around CakePHP pretty quick because I > had a strong IT background helping. Plus I will spend 2 days without > sleep digging when there's interest. And then I was comfortable with > the code (or php), comfortable with the pattern (MVC) and comfortable > with the platform (web). I think my learning curve was pretty flat! > Then I use to hangout in the IRC channel trying to do my bit and got > quickly sick of it because of questions like "what if I want to remove > the cake logo". > > As Tane was saying from a different angle, we need to make sure > documentation is kept and standards are followed religiously. I must > admit the cake code is awesome! I'm a fair bit of a purist and I > literally felt in love with it. The code is nice to a point that it > could even be harmful for the project itself! Contributing back is not > simple; suggestions are vetoe'ed without any further discussions, > enhancement are left to die in trac, which btw is filled with users > who raise a critical bug for the current stable version because some > function doesn't do what THEY want, not realising they're not calling > it properly. > ... my point is, the code is very good, fairly documented, but kept on > such a tight lead that is sometimes pisses me off like I'm sure it > pisses others off. But I can live with that. *** > > However, beside the tutorial, there is no or very little 'official' > documentation. I'm thinking about "Once you understand that cake is > great... what's next!!?", "Building applications using cake...", "Cake > versus Joomla/Mambo/xoops/phpnuke... what's so different"... "What is > bake, what isn't it for."... These are obvious to all/most of us... > but not to everyone trying cake! > > This brings us back to the initial thread... the "killer app". With > all due respect to cake and the author of the thread, wordpress is a > great blog, joomla a great news/content management, phpBB or vBuletin > great forums, osCommerce or phpShop great shopping cart, and the list > goes on and on and on... > > To eveyone who call Cake a CMS, I say you just didn't get it! > > This is to say (and this may sound a bit different from my previous > posts in this thread) that Cake is not a cms, it's a framework; an > advanced development toolkit for a web environment, likely to be used > for projects. What projects need, what projects don't want to code > again is; > > * Security/authentication (cake is missing docs/have incomplete > implementations), > * ORM (bugs raised in regards to that were fixed very quickly, > congrats Nate!), > * Caching (haven't looked into that aspect of cake much, but I believe > caching the model might not be enough), > * Session management (.NET is still way ahead... cookie or cookie- > less...), > * RAD (Cake is a great starting point, but over 60% of admin views are > pretty much all the same!) > > It might even be worth having a big notice on cake's homepage saying > "Cake will not build a website FOR you, it will help YOU DO IT!". > > Anyways... sorry about the long post!... and.. that's my 2c btw... > don't bother flaming! > > Seb. > > *** coming back to the code and contributing... judging by the length > of posts, some of us CAN write here. Personally, a while ago I was > even willing to put a few hours a week, sometimes a day to push things > forward. But the process of convincing 'the project' something could > be worth it down the track is just too time consuming). I gave up (and > have been involved in open source projects before, never seen such a > strong objection to change). So.. when I have the opportunity of doing > something I'm good at (writing code or documentation) to help out or > charge a few hundred $/h for my services... sometimes the choice is > just too obvious! > > so anyway... again, my 2 c! > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cake PHP" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
