Sorry forgot to add http://groups.google.com/group/cakephp-core/
-- Larry E. Masters On Apr 10, 9:21 pm, "PhpNut - Larry E. Masters" <[email protected]> wrote: > I just created a new google group that people can join if they are > interested in discussing the core development and other project > specific topics with the team. This channel will not be used for > support related topics and I will remove anyone from the list that > uses it in an attempt to get support. > > Do not use the list to report bugs in the core, > usehttp://cakephp.lighthouseapp.com/ > > Do not post code in the group. If you want to show code to the core > team fork (https://github.com/cakephp/cakephp/fork)CakePHP on Github > and submit pull requests or use gist (https://gist.github.com/) on > Github. > > -- > Larry E. Masters > > On Apr 10, 7:13 am, keymaster <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Thank you Mark for your post. > > > > The biggest obstacle to all of the improvements that I can see is time… > > > For me time has been in short supply. > > > Completely understandable. You should never put in any more time than you > > are comfortable giving. I think everyone realizes clearly that you are > > putting more development hours into this project than anyone else, and more > > than anyone expects. > > > > Creating additional organization, and soliciting people to contribute all > > > requires time. > > > Agreed, but the unfortunate truth is that leveraging the work of other > > people is the only way to eliminate the very realistic risk of any one > > person bottlenecking the entire project. > > > Consider what would happen if for whatever reason life throws your way, you > > decide to move onto bigger and better things next week. What kind of > > situation would this project be in? How many people are there with the time > > and desire and knowledge to keep the ball rolling. If there are such people, > > where are they now? (sorry for the tough questions) > > > If cake is to succeed and grow, it must come to depend on as wide as > > possible a distribution of active contributors, rather than the efforts of > > any single individual. > > > Since it is open source where people do this for enjoyment only, there needs > > to be a development environment which will be interesting and enjoyable to > > attract and keep core developers. The points I mentioned in my earlier post, > > I think, are a necessary prerequisite for this to happen. > > > I think developers will be attracted to interesting discussions/debates of > > architectures, implementation choices, refactorings, incorporations of new > > directions. > > > Allowing people to read what is being discussed, seeing the interesting > > problems the core is facing, and allowing people to contribute their own > > good ideas will get people interested. > > > The result should be a bubbling up of more developers desiring to roll up > > their sleeves and take on development responsibilities within the core. > > > The role of the lead developer becomes ever more important, as he must > > review and throttle all this, but perhaps equally important it sounds like > > we need some kind of an organizer/communicator/personality type person to > > engender an environment which is conducive to attracting new core > > developers. A developer can be an introvert and create outstanding code, but > > a project also need a bit of a marketing/extrovert type person (a separate > > role) to interest people in getting involved. > > > > I always felt that if people were interested in contributing, and had a > > > real interest in it, they would. You can't really force people to work for > > free, and > > > > to be honest working on open source requires willpower and determination. > > > If people don't feel ready or don't feel that they can help I don't really > > > > know what can be done to remedy that. > > > I think if we implemented some of the ideas mentioned earlier, you will get > > more people interested in core issues, and you will see more volunteers > > stepping forward. > > > There are 15,000 members on this list. You will get people. > > > > I know in the past, and the present, the plans for CakePHP haven't always > > > been crystal clear and transparent. We've been trying to improve that > > > > situation, by putting up wiki pages with ways to contribute, and what the > > > current planned out changes are. > > > That is a great first step, and it allows people to see what is being done. > > > But basically it puts everyone into a passive movie theatre mode just > > sitting back in their chairs, looking up at the screen and waiting to see > > what the core developer(s) is/are going to put up for us on lighthouse next. > > It’s not a discussion, and is not really conducive to getting people > > actively involved. > > > If there are no real discussions going on already about development > > direction within the current core team members, such that you think a > > developer forum will be too inactive if it was created, that already is a > > sign of a hidden problem. > > > If this is true, I would venture to say that is a major red light for this > > project. In any event, our purpose is not to look backwards, but put > > processes in place to rectify this going forward. > > > On the other hand if there currently are active discussions among the core > > developers, why not discuss them on an open forum, to generate developer > > interest? You will get people involved that way. The benefits of a > > back-and-forth between intelligent developers cross examining development > > issues under discussion cannot be underestimated. > > > Have a look at some of the intensely interesting and often heated and > > passionate development discussions on the Symfony2 or Zend Framework 2 > > developer lists. You’ll see what I am aiming at for our project, and what I > > think is missing here. I have no doubt we can benefit immensely from that > > kind of fire in our own cake project. > > > > There has also been a good start on re-writing/updating the documentation > > > for 2.0. > > > That’s great, your work is really appreciated. > > > Perhaps maybe a first step, which doesn’t take any time, is to do two > > things: > > > 1. Create a Google group for core development discussion, and link to it > > from the cakephp.org site as well as from this Google group. > > > There should be a sticky post which makes it clear that while one need not > > be a core member to participate, the topics are strictly limited to core > > development issues, not userland issues. > > > People should politely be redirected to the main cake users group for all > > userland type questions. > > > 2. A weekly blog post on cakephp.org which summarizes the weekly activity in > > development. This will certainly generates an ongoing interest in the > > project. > > > Sorry for the (very) long post – I’ve hope I haven’t overused my welcome. > > > Hopefully these ideas will be considered by the core team as a positive > > contribution. > > > I am speaking as someone with the greatest respect for phpNut (cake's > > esteemed founder and visionary, without whom none of our 15,000 developers > > would have a cake to work with, and who continues to put all his efforts > > into evangelizing this project more than anyone else), Mark Story (of > > course) and all the current and previous core developers who have given > > selflessly of their valuable time to make cake what it is. -- Our newest site for the community: CakePHP Video Tutorials http://tv.cakephp.org Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://ask.cakephp.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. 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