Who is the primary intended audience for the CLI? Patrick's comments seem to indicate add-on tools providers to grow the PhoneGap eco-system. Andrew's seem to indicate developers. It could be both, but while the needs overlap, they are somewhat different.
Paul On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Brian LeRoux <[email protected]> wrote: > after my cordova proj experience I think having tools for each > project, using a common nomenclature, is the way to go > > the good news: most of those tools are in some form already in place > for each proj > > wrapping those tools into a master cli project should be easy, and > won't force the hands of devs > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Andrew Lunny <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 10 April 2012 16:27, Patrick Mueller <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 18:21, Andrew Lunny <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> I think the best way for us to approach command-line tooling is to be > >>> laser-focused on individual problems. > >> > >> > >> Partially agree. That's the "bottom up" approach. I'm curious what our > >> "top down" story looks like. The easiest way for me to imagine what > that > >> looks like, is to start sketching out the highest-level "commands" that > >> you'll be using to do stuff. > >> > >> Bottom up is great for solving the "how do I do surgery on .xcodeproject > >> files, or those android manifests - THEY ARE STINKY!" Tough sticky > >> problems to work on, we will likely need them once we figure out what > the > >> high level story is. > >> > >> I think we need to do both. > >> > >> At least, I think we do, because, again, I have no idea what our "top > >> down" story looks like. None at all. So I made one up - the commands. > Is > >> there another "top down" story out there I missed? > >> > > > > Well from a high-level perspective, I think your commands are too > > low-level. :) > > > > The issue is that there isn't such a thing as a Cordova app. There are > two > > separate things: > > > > (a) a native (iOS, Android, etc) app, using the Cordova framework to > serve > > content; and > > (b) some higher abstraction (like a PhoneGap Build app) that transforms > > down in multiple apps of type (a) > > > > From anecdotal experience, I think most developers are building type-a > > apps, then running into difficulties when they try to create a second > > type-a app that uses the same www content (porting from iOS to Android or > > whatever). > > > > Some things CLI tools can do: > > > > 1. improve the experience of building a type-a app (like generating an > > xcodeproj that doesn't explode, or adding new capabilities through > plugins) > > 2. improve the experience of building multiple type-a apps (generate an > > Android project from your iOS project, keep them in sync) > > 3. create/enhance a type-b experience (which your proposed commands do) > and > > abstract away the type-a projects > > > > I think we do need CLI tools to solve the #1 and #2 problem sets*. > > > > I don't think we're at a place where we can reliably abstract away those > > type-a projects, so that every interaction a user has is through a type-b > > project and the associated CLI commands. In some of the problems you > > mention above, the type-b concept gets even stronger, affecting the > actual > > JS runtime of the created app. The issue is whether we *want* to create > and > > encourage this kind of holistic developer experience. > > > > PhoneGap/Cordova has historically stayed away from this stuff - we > haven't > > determined or enforced how developers build apps using the framework. I > > think this is a feature, not a bug; web developers can easily come in and > > build to a browser, rather than to our particular conventions. > > > > Personally, I would like to see this kind of > > type-b/holistic/I've-been-typing-too-long developed outside of cordova > (as > > Brian's old Cordova project was) - if it becomes mature and viable > enough, > > we can bring it into the project as a whole, and start determining > changes > > to the framework to accomodate it. > > > > Hope some of that makes sense, > > Andrew > > > > * sorry, this is getting increasingly convoluted > -- Paul Beusterien 1-650-918-7074 skype:paul.beusterien http://www.mobiledevelopersolutions.com
