Yes I understand what you mean. All of your points are valid points. I guess all of our experiences are different. I've never been to your dance and I don't think you've seen me teach a beginning workshop. I have a couple of points for you to think about. It is possible to get most beginners (maybe 95%) to do the buzz step in about 10 minutes. To do it you have to teach one thing at a time and work from the ground up (feet, then knees, then upper body). Some of them might regress into a sloppy swing during the regular dance but I did give them the opportunity.
The problem with teaching the walking step swing is that once people learn it, it is VERY difficult to unlearn. Not worth the effort for many. I called a dance in North Carolina where most of the dancers were fairly skilled. Except, all of the men did the walking step swing. Why? Because the walking step swing is taught at the beginning lesson. So, I spent a good 10 minutes of the regular dance teaching them the buzz step swing. They all got it. They retained it for one dance. Here's another reason: One move that is in every dance is the swing. Many dances have two swings. If you listed all of the moves that you called in an evening and the amount of time spent dancing each move, the swing would be at the top of the list. The amount of time swinging might even be more than many of the other top moves combined. Why not concentrate on the move that is done the most and gives (many people) the most enjoyment? Chris mentioned the issue with reaction time. Great observation! My workshops for the first 15 minutes or so center on two main things: reaction time and progression. I really can't describe what I do but is is kinda of like a gently hash calling in contra formation. To be honest, I have always used only 8 beat swings in the first two dances of the evening and have never seen any problems with the beginners ending a swing on time. For me it's the dancers who have a bit of experience and imitate the experienced dancers who end swings late-twirl, twirl, twirl. Tom [email protected] wrote: > Send Callers mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Callers digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Teaching a Swing ([email protected]) > 2. Calling Katie's Trip to Starbase 12 (Rickey) > 3. Re: Calling Katie's Trip to Starbase 12 (David Millstone) > 4. Re: Teaching a Swing (barb kirchner) > 5. Re: Calling Katie's Trip to Starbase 12 (Seth Tepfer) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 00:25:13 +0000 > From: [email protected] > Subject: [Callers] Teaching a Swing > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: > > <031520060025.10891.44175ee90000fbdc00002a8b220075074409069d0a07049c0a040...@comcast.net> > > > I heartily agree with Chris on the stepping or walking swing for beginners! > My husband, Bob Golder, who has been dancing for 30 years, and several other > very experienced dancers, only do a walking swing. They can keep up with the > fastest of buzz step swinging partners, and are very smooth. The stepping > swing is easy to teach, and is a natural movement for dancers. In addition, > it keeps them moving smoothly. I always tell them that when they are ready, > and feel it in the movement, they will naturally begin buzz step swinging. > And even if they don't, walking swings can be just as terrific! > > And in general to everyone, it is very enjoyable to be on this email list! > The discussions and suggestions are thought provoking and very helpful. > Thanks to everyone! > warmly, Linda Leslie > > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > I agree with all but two of these. Here's why I disagree: > > > > 2) Beginners have a delay in their reaction times to calls. They have to > > process the call, translate it to what they know before they can tell > > their bodies what to do. This is unlike an experienced dancer who has > > muscle memory tied directly to the ears (or something like that). 8^) > > When I have called to dances with a high percentage of beginners, the > > dances with 8 count swings, by the time the dancers get into swing > > position and start turning, they can't even get around once sometimes. 8 > > count swings also indicate a higher piece count in the dance and make it > > more difficult. I have had better luck with 12 count swings when dealing > > with beginners. > > > > 8) I am convinced that (with rare exceptions) when you teach someone > > anything about the swing, they only can move up one notch along the > > learning curve. They can only keep one instruction in mind when they are > > practicing the swing. It took me a long time to learn how to buzz step > > well and to incorporate it in such a way that didn't cause discomfort > > for my partner. Since the swing is one of the first, hardest and most > > common moves that they learn, it needs to be easy and quick to learn. > > That's why I teach the walking swing. They have enough to learn about > > posture, frame and dealing with eye contact. Why burden them with extra > > information when they already know how to walk forward and it will work > > just as well? By all means, let them know that the buzz step exists and > > show them what it looks like. But also let them know that they don't > > have to do it for a swing to be fun. I can show someone how to do a > > walking swing in less than 30 seconds and have them dancing and their > > mind will be clear enough to learn the other calls that they are being > > taught. I have seen too many people befuddled by the buzz step and in a > > daze while the first dance is being taught. > > > > Hmmm... I guess that number 8 touched a nerve... 8^) > > > > Happy Dancing, > > > > Chris > > > > http://www.chrisweiler.ws/ > > > > > > Tom Hinds wrote: > > > > > It occurred to me that many of the behaviors on this list are due to > > >insecurity (dancing with other beginners, waiting to be asked etc.) That > > >got > > >me to thinking about what callers can do to make sure the beginners have a > > >good experience. So, I've come up with my own list for callers. These > > >items > > >may contain items that some may not agree with. But this may generate some > > >good discussion. > > > > > >10 things a caller can do to help beginners have a good experience: > > > > > >1) Prepare a logical program that starts easy and builds. > > > > > >2) Like a professional dance teacher, warm up muscles slowly. Use dances > > >with 8 count swings (max) early in the evening. Keep the first couple of > > >dances shorter. New and not so new dancers are entering the hall and you > > >want > > >them up and dancing sooner rather than later, > > > > > >3) Be prepared well enough so that you don't have to use cards. Watch the > > >dancers. Watch the dancers. > > > > > >4) Encourage everyone to dance with everyone else. When a dance ends, > > >suggest that those who just danced ask those sitting out for the next > > >dance. > > > > > >5) Demonstrate what smooth dancing looks like (especially if many newbees > > >are > > >skipping). > > > > > >6) Teach safe dancing - like proper allemandes. If you see dancers > > >dancing > > >out of control take measures to make sure that they don't hurt anyone. > > > > > >7) If you make a mistake, admit it. Often if something doesn't work, the > > >new > > >dancers think it's because of them. > > > > > >8) Teach the buzz step swing in the beginning workshop. Teach it well. > > > > > >9) If a dance has a tricky move, show the dancers how to perform the move > > >with finesse. If the dance has a challenge in the timing department, > > >communicate to the dancers how to be on time. > > > > > >10) If you call a challenging dance and the new dancers look a bit > > >confused, > > >tell the crowd that that was a very difficult dance and that they handled > > >it > > >very well (this one from Ted Sannella). If the dance was so challenging > > >that > > >sets broke down, tell the dancers that you picked a bad dance (in other > > >words > > >it's you, not them). > > > > > >Tom Hinds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Callers mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > > > > > End of Callers Digest, Vol 19, Issue 11 > > *************************************** > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:26:12 -0500 > From: "Rickey" <[email protected]> > Subject: [Callers] Calling Katie's Trip to Starbase 12 > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <000001c647d7$d70a3930$5f511e42@maxx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi, > > I got such great responses to my very first question posted to this list > that I thought I'd try another. "Katie's Trip to Starbase 12", by Merilee > Karr calls for a "Swinging Star" (a double star, both wrist grip right-hand > star and left hands across star at the same time). This takes up all of B1. > The number of times around is not specified in my version. It can take a > bit of time to get this star together, and as it uses a buzz step, it can > really get going once assembled - so the lack of instructions as to the > number of revolutions may be intentional. B2 starts with the left-hand > hands across star, and it is important where that one ends. Perhaps the > only thing to do is to point out where this second star ends when teaching > the dance. Has anyone else on this list called the dance? How do you deal > with this? > > Thanks, > > Rickey Holt. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: 14 Mar 2006 21:56:59 EST > From: [email protected] (David Millstone) > Subject: Re: [Callers] Calling Katie's Trip to Starbase 12 > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain > > I used to call it a lot-- the swinging star is a nice gimmick and when you're > in > the right foursome, you can have a great time in that figure. > > > the lack of instructions as to the number of revolutions may be intentional > > Yes, I think that's the case. And yes, I agree with your solution to emphasize > where you end up the LH star. > > In one of those wonderful cross-country leaps (Merilee Karr is in Portland, > OR, > and Seth Tepfer is in Atlanta), nspired by Merilee's dance, Seth wrote > another, > Swinging on a Star." I often use that one instead. I like the way it ends > slightly better than the original. > > Seth's dance is here: > > http://www.dancerhapsody.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Choreography#SwinginStar > > Both dances, in my opinion, work better if not allowed to run too long. > > David Millstone > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:25:59 +0000 > From: "barb kirchner" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Teaching a Swing > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > i also strongly agree! i *never* teach a buzz-step swing. i *do* demo a > swing with one person walking and one person buzzing, and point out to them > that they can walk to matter what the other person is doing. > > i also tell them that after awhile, they will "feel" the buzz step, and when > they do, they should go ahead and try it out. > > in my mind, it's more important to explain to everyone that they need to > carry their own weight during a swing. i also tell them that it's important > to swing in a way that's comfortable for both people, and "comfortable" is > the important word here. > > also, the swing is the first thing i teach - it's the one figure that's > guaranteed to be in every dance. as soon as they figure out "lady on the > right" and the pointy hands thing, i'm ready to line them up. > > it's my perception that if they can get oriented at the end of a swing and > be comfortable with that, they don't have much trouble getting oriented once > they're in line. so i teach the swing first, they are scattered around the > area. i explain about the pointy hands, then have them swing and end with > the pointy hands facing me. doing it again, face down the hall. do it > again, face the stage. they lady's always on the right, they get used to > following instructions - lots of info about orientation and position in a > small, coherent lump in a short time! > > i see so many people swinging poorly these days, especially at places like > the thursday night dance and greenfield - the focus always seems to be how > many twirls/dips you can fit in, and there is no comprehension of the > musical phrase. i also hear a lot of guys complaining about chronic right > shoulder pain... > > i'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on the current state of the > swing and what we, as people trying to set good examples in our communities, > might do about it. even if we teach new dancers good form, what can be done > about poor form from experienced dancers? > > barb > > http://www.barbkirchner.us > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: [email protected] > Reply-To: Caller's discussion list <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Callers] Teaching a Swing > Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 00:25:13 +0000 > > I heartily agree with Chris on the stepping or walking swing for beginners! > My husband, Bob Golder, who has been dancing for 30 years, and several other > very experienced dancers, only do a walking swing. They can keep up with the > fastest of buzz step swinging partners, and are very smooth. The stepping > swing is easy to teach, and is a natural movement for dancers. In addition, > it keeps them moving smoothly. I always tell them that when they are ready, > and feel it in the movement, they will naturally begin buzz step swinging. > And even if they don't, walking swings can be just as terrific! > > And in general to everyone, it is very enjoyable to be on this email list! > The discussions and suggestions are thought provoking and very helpful. > Thanks to everyone! > warmly, Linda Leslie > > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > I agree with all but two of these. Here's why I disagree: > > > > 2) Beginners have a delay in their reaction times to calls. They have to > > process the call, translate it to what they know before they can tell > > their bodies what to do. This is unlike an experienced dancer who has > > muscle memory tied directly to the ears (or something like that). 8^) > > When I have called to dances with a high percentage of beginners, the > > dances with 8 count swings, by the time the dancers get into swing > > position and start turning, they can't even get around once sometimes. 8 > > count swings also indicate a higher piece count in the dance and make it > > more difficult. I have had better luck with 12 count swings when dealing > > with beginners. > > > > 8) I am convinced that (with rare exceptions) when you teach someone > > anything about the swing, they only can move up one notch along the > > learning curve. They can only keep one instruction in mind when they are > > practicing the swing. It took me a long time to learn how to buzz step > > well and to incorporate it in such a way that didn't cause discomfort > > for my partner. Since the swing is one of the first, hardest and most > > common moves that they learn, it needs to be easy and quick to learn. > > That's why I teach the walking swing. They have enough to learn about > > posture, frame and dealing with eye contact. Why burden them with extra > > information when they already know how to walk forward and it will work > > just as well? By all means, let them know that the buzz step exists and > > show them what it looks like. But also let them know that they don't > > have to do it for a swing to be fun. I can show someone how to do a > > walking swing in less than 30 seconds and have them dancing and their > > mind will be clear enough to learn the other calls that they are being > > taught. I have seen too many people befuddled by the buzz step and in a > > daze while the first dance is being taught. > > > > Hmmm... I guess that number 8 touched a nerve... 8^) > > > > Happy Dancing, > > > > Chris > > > > http://www.chrisweiler.ws/ > > > > > > Tom Hinds wrote: > > > > > It occurred to me that many of the behaviors on this list are due to > > >insecurity (dancing with other beginners, waiting to be asked etc.) > That got > > >me to thinking about what callers can do to make sure the beginners have > a > > >good experience. So, I've come up with my own list for callers. These > items > > >may contain items that some may not agree with. But this may generate > some > > >good discussion. > > > > > >10 things a caller can do to help beginners have a good experience: > > > > > >1) Prepare a logical program that starts easy and builds. > > > > > >2) Like a professional dance teacher, warm up muscles slowly. Use > dances > > >with 8 count swings (max) early in the evening. Keep the first couple > of > > >dances shorter. New and not so new dancers are entering the hall and > you want > > >them up and dancing sooner rather than later, > > > > > >3) Be prepared well enough so that you don't have to use cards. Watch > the > > >dancers. Watch the dancers. > > > > > >4) Encourage everyone to dance with everyone else. When a dance ends, > > >suggest that those who just danced ask those sitting out for the next > dance. > > > > > >5) Demonstrate what smooth dancing looks like (especially if many > newbees are > > >skipping). > > > > > >6) Teach safe dancing - like proper allemandes. If you see dancers > dancing > > >out of control take measures to make sure that they don't hurt anyone. > > > > > >7) If you make a mistake, admit it. Often if something doesn't work, > the new > > >dancers think it's because of them. > > > > > >8) Teach the buzz step swing in the beginning workshop. Teach it well. > > > > > >9) If a dance has a tricky move, show the dancers how to perform the > move > > >with finesse. If the dance has a challenge in the timing department, > > >communicate to the dancers how to be on time. > > > > > >10) If you call a challenging dance and the new dancers look a bit > confused, > > >tell the crowd that that was a very difficult dance and that they > handled it > > >very well (this one from Ted Sannella). If the dance was so challenging > that > > >sets broke down, tell the dancers that you picked a bad dance (in other > words > > >it's you, not them). > > > > > >Tom Hinds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Callers mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > > > > > End of Callers Digest, Vol 19, Issue 11 > > *************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:30:24 -0500 > From: Seth Tepfer <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Calling Katie's Trip to Starbase 12 > To: [email protected], "Caller's discussion list" > <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > At 09:56 PM 3/14/2006, David Millstone wrote: > >In one of those wonderful cross-country leaps (Merilee Karr is in > >Portland, OR, > >and Seth Tepfer is in Atlanta), inspired by Merilee's dance, > > It is worth mentioning that when I first started to dance in 1993 Merilee's > dance was common in GA and FL. I had no idea who Merilee was, or where she > lived. > > >Seth wrote another, > >http://www.dancerhapsody.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Choreography#SwinginStar > > My wife mentioned that she got dizzy in the original, when doing the > swinging star (to the right) followed by the left hand star. I always > thought that switching direction would lessen the dizziness, but hey, what > do I know? I love that swinging star move, so for her I wrote a slightly > different version that continued the star to the right - right into the > neighbor swing. > > Glad you like it! > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > End of Callers Digest, Vol 19, Issue 12 > ***************************************
