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Today's Topics:
1. Re: mental health and dance calling (Amy Cann)
2. Re: mental health and dance calling (Bree Kalb)
3. Re: mental health and dance calling (Amy Cann)
4. Re: mental health and dance calling (Martha Edwards)
5. Re: unwelcome behavior (Martha Edwards)
6. alternate formations (Richard Mckeever)
7. Re: alternate formations (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 12:03:17 -0400
From: Amy Cann <[email protected]>
To: "Caller's discussion list" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Callers] mental health and dance calling
Message-ID:
<CALZWU+t7PGH_zRxzfR
[email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It's funny, I'm listening to all of these stories and thinking
about the
creepers I've run into over the years, and I'm thinking to myself:
"Well, it's really quite simple, isn't it? Ladies, if a gent is being
inappropriate, walk away!
Just wait until you're out at the top or bottom, turn to him and
say 'I am
uncomfortable with what you are doing and am not going to finish
this dance
with you' -- and then do it. Walk off. And if he's really
offensive, don't
wait until the end, bail out right then and there. The world won't
end if a
line of dancers has to cope with a hole. What's more important,
ten more
minutes of perfect dancing for that line, at that dance, or a
really good
behavior-modification moment that will actually improve the dance
community
more in the long run?"
And yet it isn't that simple, is it? We don't do it. We have these
halls
just filled with women who are about as uniformly
modern/educated/self-actuated/socially conscious/feminist as it
gets, who
spend our days running businesses or doing high end IT/research
-- or
teaching children or counseling teens or lobbying to pass laws on
issues
just like this -- and not once in my experience have I ever known
a woman
to
say "Nope, enough, not going to let you do this."
Heck, I've marched eighth grade boys (and girls) off the
playground for
inappropriate behavior without a flinch, but at a dance, when it's
*me?
*I've
been groped and dipped and clenched a few times over the years and
the most
overt thing I've ever done is reached back, grabbed his hand,
moved it up
about six inches to the small of my back, and said "works much
better for
me
if you keep your hand *there". *The other times, I've simply
become ice
cold/distant and stopped making eye contact - which can be quite the
putdown
if you really work it, smile and nod at all of your neighbors but
shut down
completely every time you return to your partner. But have I truly
called
them out on it? No. And neither have any of my peers.
Food for thought.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 13:15:09 -0400
From: "Bree Kalb" <[email protected]>
To: "Caller's discussion list" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Callers] mental health and dance calling
Message-ID: <36DF3156E5FA448B88FBF5C1106D581C@BreeHomeLaptop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Amy wrote: But have I truly called
them out on it? No. And neither have any of my peers.
I have.
Now that I'm older, it doesn't happen as often, but still does
occasionally.
I've put my left palm against a man's shoulder and pushed him
back, saying:
"I don't want to dance that close.' Or: "I don't sleaze dance."
The next
time they've asked me to dance, I've said "I'll only dance with
you again
if you don't (do that particular thing again.)" They've always
agreed and
behaved themselves, for that dance. When I come to them in the
line, I
automatically push them back a little. But I know I'm an
exception; the
younger, shyer women don't feel comfortable setting limits. Even
someone
like Amy (who I surmise is not particularly shy) is uneasy being
so bold.
So it's important that the organizers pay attention and act. Our
board
actually banned a guy from dancing because he was preying on
teenage girls;
other dance organizers in the area followed suit.
Bree Kalb
Carrboro
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 13:27:09 -0400
From: Amy Cann <[email protected]>
To: "Caller's discussion list" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Callers] mental health and dance calling
Message-ID:
<CALZWU+s=JBRxuF8ZvN6_vwBDE
[email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I'll bet this discussion is going to continue for a bit, so let's
clarify:
I've ALWAYS made people stop what they are doing -- made them
leave more
room, move a hand -- I've just always done it non-verbally. If I
don't want
to be dipped, I don't get dipped -- I can shift my weight or go
inert in
ways that make it impossible. I'm not shy about taking care of
myself, and
that cold/silent treatment is pretty darn harsh/unmistakable (just
ask my
husband :)
But on reflection, it's always been a private interchange. By
"calling
out",
I mean it in the most specific way: calling them out from the
crowd, into
the spotlight, to be addressed in front of an audience. I've very
rarely
seen this happen, and have never heard of a woman walking off the
floor
mid-dance.
On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Bree Kalb <[email protected]>
wrote:
Amy wrote: But have I truly called
them out on it? No. And neither have any of my peers.
I have.
Now that I'm older, it doesn't happen as often, but still does
occasionally.
I've put my left palm against a man's shoulder and pushed him back,
saying:
"I don't want to dance that close.' Or: "I don't sleaze dance."
The next
time they've asked me to dance, I've said "I'll only dance with you
again
if you don't (do that particular thing again.)" They've always
agreed and
behaved themselves, for that dance. When I come to them in the
line, I
automatically push them back a little. But I know I'm an
exception; the
younger, shyer women don't feel comfortable setting limits. Even
someone
like Amy (who I surmise is not particularly shy) is uneasy being
so bold.
So
it's important that the organizers pay attention and act. Our board
actually
banned a guy from dancing because he was preying on teenage
girls; other
dance organizers in the area followed suit.
Bree Kalb
Carrboro
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 14:32:07 -0500
From: Martha Edwards <[email protected]>
To: "Caller's discussion list" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Callers] mental health and dance calling
Message-ID:
<CAJjmMcPtmmmmaO5KSLND-
[email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Good points, all, as usual.
The more difficult problem is how to keep the creeps from behaving
that way
with younger, or newer, dancers, who don't know yet what sort of
atmosphere
we generally maintain, and are reluctant to "cause a scene".
Mostly, I
think, if it's too bad, they just go away, never to return and
find out
that
99% of dancers would never think of acting that way.
So, when we tell these folks a direct "NO" (and we should, oh yes, we
should!) we can do those dancers a favor and tell the creeps
exactly what
they did that was offensive. Tell them what they did and how you
feel about
it. And tell a trustworthy board member.
I admit I haven't always been direct with people on my own behalf
- I just
get away and move on. Oddly, I'm much more comfortable speaking to
these
folks on behalf of others. No fear. Wonder what that's about.
M
E
On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Amy Cann <[email protected]>
wrote:
I'll bet this discussion is going to continue for a bit, so let's
clarify:
I've ALWAYS made people stop what they are doing -- made them
leave more
room, move a hand -- I've just always done it non-verbally. If I
don't
want
to be dipped, I don't get dipped -- I can shift my weight or go
inert in
ways that make it impossible. I'm not shy about taking care of
myself,
and
that cold/silent treatment is pretty darn harsh/unmistakable
(just ask my
husband :)
But on reflection, it's always been a private interchange. By
"calling
out",
I mean it in the most specific way: calling them out from the
crowd, into
the spotlight, to be addressed in front of an audience. I've very
rarely
seen this happen, and have never heard of a woman walking off the
floor
mid-dance.
On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Bree Kalb <[email protected]>
wrote:
Amy wrote: But have I truly called
them out on it? No. And neither have any of my peers.
I have.
Now that I'm older, it doesn't happen as often, but still does
occasionally.
I've put my left palm against a man's shoulder and pushed him back,
saying:
"I don't want to dance that close.' Or: "I don't sleaze dance." The
next
time they've asked me to dance, I've said "I'll only dance with
you
again
if you don't (do that particular thing again.)" They've always
agreed
and
behaved themselves, for that dance. When I come to them in the
line, I
automatically push them back a little. But I know I'm an
exception; the
younger, shyer women don't feel comfortable setting limits. Even
someone
like Amy (who I surmise is not particularly shy) is uneasy being so
bold.
So
it's important that the organizers pay attention and act. Our board
actually
banned a guy from dancing because he was preying on teenage girls;
other
dance organizers in the area followed suit.
Bree Kalb
Carrboro
______________________________**_________________
Callers mailing list
[email protected]
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_______________________________________________
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--
As you set out for Ithaka, pray that your journey be long, full of
adventure, full of discovery...
May there be many summer mornings when, with what pleasure, with
what joy,
you enter harbors you're seeing for the first time.
~Constantine Cavafy, "Ithaka" 1911
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 15:09:25 -0500
From: Martha Edwards <[email protected]>
To: "Caller's discussion list" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Callers] unwelcome behavior
Message-ID:
<CAJjmMcPMteUijM5uawWOCauvUZvwJGJVL05Dkkca=bb6j9p...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Here, it's easy. We don't allow lifting people off the floor.
We have one person with a very mild mental illness who wasn't
judging very
well when to do it and when not, and wasn't always doing it
safely, so we
just made it a rule, not to be broken, that no one does it, to
make it
easier for him to remember.
We also have a board member who loves doing aerials, does them
with safety
and with permission and all other good stuff, but he can't do it
at our
dances either, just because the hard-and-fast rule is the only way
we can
keep the rest of us from being cut off at the knees when the other
guy was
swinging new dancers off their feet and their legs cut a six-foot
circle
sweep.
I also saw a caller in Kansas City stop a dance once and tell a
particularly
aggressive dancer to stop lifting people off the ground. "I have
liability
here, and I'm not going to continue calling if you keep doing
that." I
think the dancers applauded.
I had the pleasure of meeting Frankie Manning, who invented the
aerial in
swing dancing in 1935, and was particularly impressed with the
amount of
practice he and his partner did before they ever tried it on a
dance floor
-
with mattresses covering the floor of his living room while they
learned
how.
M
E
On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Greg McKenzie <[email protected]>
wrote:
I would love to hear how other dance communities have dealt with
this
issue.
- Greg McKenzie
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 14:12:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard Mckeever <[email protected]>
To: Caller's discussion list <[email protected]>
Subject: [Callers] alternate formations
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Here is a new topic...
Recently I have noticed that many of the programs presented have
consisted
solely of duple improper contras with a couple Becket dances
thrown in for
variety.
I would be interesting to hear how other callers incorporate other
formations in their programs and how they and the dancer feel
about it
This would include - but not be limited to:
circles dances
Sicilian circles
Squares
4 facing 4
triple minors
scatter mixers
other??
Comments by formation would be interesting as would regional
variations in
programming
Mac McKeever
St Louis
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 15:22:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing
<[email protected]>
To: Richard Mckeever <[email protected]>
Cc: Caller's discussion list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Callers] alternate formations
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Mac asked about how other callerrs incorporate other formations
into their
programs.
I call English (for 25+ years), barn dances, historical-themed
(Regency/Early
American, Civil War, Dickens) and contra (for the last five or so
years,
but
only a few times a year).
My answers are different for each kind of thing.
For English, I typically call more duple minor (usually proper) than
anything
else, but try to mix it up with small-set dances (two-couple set,
three-couple
set, squares) and a triple minor or two in an evening. Since
tunes go with
particular dances, I also consider variety in mood, key, meter,
and tempo
when
I'm making up the program. (I'll also use what I know about the
musicians
I
have that night and try to keep away from notey reels for a
fiddler with
tendinitis, bias toward Bb tunes if I have a cello player, etc.)
For barn dances, anything goes. Sicilians, threesome Sicilians, big
circles,
grand march, circle mixer, whatever.
For historically-themed, it depends somewhat on what I can justify
historically, so Regency has lots of longways duples and some
triples,
mixed
with an occasional three-couple set (adapted from a triple minor,
like
Fandango, Prince William, etc), interspersed with waltzes.
For Civil War / Victorian, Sicilians, threesome Sicilians, whole
sets in
longways formation (Gothic Dance, Virginia Reel/Roger de
Coverley), mixed
up
with waltzes, polkas, schottisches and galops.
Around here (SF Bay Area) if you do a whole evening of duple-minor
improper
contras at a contra dance, nobody complains about it. Some
callers like to
include a square or two in an evening. A noticeable number of
people will
sit
down if they realize it's a square. (As a dancer, I've had a
partner bail
on
me when she realized it was a square.) That doesn't happen as
much at
local
weekend or week-long camps, but at regular dances with local
callers, 10%
or
more of the people who'd be up for a contra sit down for a
square. I'm not
the
miracle square dance caller who's going to change their minds
about it,
either,
so I don't program squares.
When I first started calling contras here, my ten-dance program
might have
a
circle mixer in slot three and a triplet sometime after the
break. I've
had
complaints relayed to me about calling 'gimmicky' dances, and I
wasn't
getting
great response from the triplets, so I've dropped those. I want
to get
invited
back to call again, and I don't need to change everybody's mind
about what
a
good time is.
My most recent program (a very successful outing in Monterey last
month)
had a
circle mixer in slot three (setting the ground for the poussette
figure I
used
in "Joyride" later) and a four-face-four right after the break,
and I got
positive response to both of those. (The music was great; if it
weren't I
could have had the best program in the world and it wouldn't have
been a
wonderful evening.)
-- Alan
--
=====================================================================
==========
Alan Winston --- [email protected]
Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone:
650/926-3056
Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA
94025
=====================================================================
==========
------------------------------
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End of Callers Digest, Vol 83, Issue 7
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