I think different things must work for different people and, as in so many things, the key is to pay attention to the person we're dancing with at any moment. Although it's not generally what I offer (because I've heard so many people complain about it), I love the flat-hand allemande. And in my experience it is very different from just walking around the person. I don't have any problem keeping my wrist and thumbs safe during that move, and I experience it as an elegant sharing of weight - not pulling on each other but oh so perfectly balancing against each other's weight to move around that center point. Obviously, from this discussion and many others, that's not how everyone experiences it, but just thought I'd chime in my experience to the mix.
-cynthia -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Martha Wild Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 12:10 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Callers] No thumb allemandes I agree fully with Erik Hoffman. I can't fathom the no thumb allemande. How the heck do you get any connection with it? Two flat surfaces and only friction - you might as well just walk around the other person, it's worse than a noodle arm. The way most people do get connection is to bend the wrist to provide some contact for shared weight - and that hurts my wrist horribly. So if someone gives me a no thumb allemande, I comply, desperately trying not to have my wrist bent, and if it is someone who doesn't bend the wrist, then there is no connection, no "shared weight" and no chance if it's a 1 1/2 allemande to get around in time. Erik has always taught the allemande hold as being a "hook", with the curled fingers providing the connection, and I have stolen that description from him and use it myself. The thumb is along for the ride but should not do any squeezing or gripping, in fact, it can even lie flat next to the curled fingers and not intersect the other thumb, as he mentions in describing the star hold. Connection without thumb pain. Thanks, Erik. Martha On Jul 1, 2013, at 9:00 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Send Callers mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Callers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: First-time Contra Dancers and similar figures (Read Weaver) > 2. Caller Expectations and Dancer Performance (Greg McKenzie) > 3. Re: Caller Expectations and Dancer Performance ([email protected]) > 4. Re: Caller Expectations and Dancer Performance (barb kirchner) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 20:48:26 -0400 > From: Read Weaver <[email protected]> > To: Caller's discussion list <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Callers] First-time Contra Dancers and similar figures > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Yeah, I don't understand the problem with no thumbs--I go out of my way to teach the no-thumb hold to beginners, mostly to avoid twisted thumbs from the person who doesn't let go in time. Is there some thought that it leads to the bent-wrist hold? > > On Jun 26, 2013, at 9:37 PM, Jacob Bloom wrote: > >> As for the no-thumb allemande: Years ago, I started having a problem with >> my left thumb aching for days after a dance, from the allemande lefts. >> This started almost 30 years ago, so I can't blame that problem on >> advancing age. As far as I'm concerned, doing an allemande without locking >> thumbs is an improvement which has been made necessary by the modern >> tendency to do an allemande all the way around in four beats instead of six >> or eight. I'm always delighted when I run into another dancer who gives me >> a no-thumb allemande. Anything that prevents injury is a good thing. >> >> Jacob Bloom >> [email protected] >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 12:00 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 00:03:40 -0700 >>> From: Erik Hoffman <[email protected]> >>> To: jean francis <[email protected]>, Caller's discussion list >>> <[email protected]> >>> Subject: >>> >>> Re: [Callers] First-time Contra Dancers and similar figures >>> >>> [1] An aside: many people call this the "wrist grip" form. I encourage >>> us all to remove the word "grip" from out teaching lexicon, as gripping >>> has led to griping, and that (IMHO) horrid no-thumb allemande... The >>> connection is through hooks and surfaces to lean on, not through >>> gripping. And, although I don't like the no thumb allemande, when do I >>> teach this form of star, I encourage all five fingers, thumb included, >>> going over the top of the wrist in front - no grip. >>> >>> erik hoffman >>> ~oakland, ca > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 07:55:18 -0700 > From: Greg McKenzie <[email protected]> > To: "Caller's discussion list" <[email protected]> > Subject: [Callers] Caller Expectations and Dancer Performance > Message-ID: > <CAFqkWLt0qEFdYC4FFthx-K+8wi6yAGE=3-ckegpbdoee5k5...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I just listened to "RadioLab" on NPR > > http://www.radiolab.org/ > > The current show on "Inner Voices" is fascinating and has information about > how the expectations of teachers (or callers) can affect performance. The > impacts of simple word changes in how a task is described can make a > dramatic difference in how people perform that task. The show talks about > research on test performance as well as a study involving the performance > of psychomotor skills (golf). > > This research dramatizes how small word choices and attitudes (or framings) > by callers could change the competence of many people in the room enough to > make the caller's job much easier or more difficult. Check it out. > > The segment about the specific research begins at about 11 minutes and 15 > seconds in. But the entire show is good. > > Makes me think about every time I have said: "Now this part of the dance is > a little tricky." > > - Greg McKenzie > West Coast, USA > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 11:09:28 -0400 (EDT) > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Callers] Caller Expectations and Dancer Performance > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Great stuff, Greg! > > I learned many important things from some of the great callers early in my > career. Larry Edelman taught me to teach about "places, not faces" while > teaching squares. This can also apply to contras. Ted Sanella taught me to > first tell who we were to look for, then what we were to do with them. These two > tips have proven very helpful when working with all dancers. > > John B. Freeman, SFTPOCTJ > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 15:19:44 +0000 > From: barb kirchner <[email protected]> > To: Caller's discussion list <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Caller Expectations and Dancer Performance > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > THANKS for bringing up this important teaching technique. > > the way you phrase something can make ALL the difference. > > instead of "this is a little tricky", i go with "this LOOKS a little bit different, but you'll be surprised how easy it is!" or "here comes the fun part!" > > if you ACT like you KNOW they'll just be able to do it, well, that's what they'll do. > > barb > > > >> From: [email protected] >> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 11:09:28 -0400 >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Callers] Caller Expectations and Dancer Performance >> >> Great stuff, Greg! >> >> I learned many important things from some of the great callers early in my >> career. Larry Edelman taught me to teach about "places, not faces" while >> teaching squares. This can also apply to contras. Ted Sanella taught me to >> first tell who we were to look for, then what we were to do with them. These two >> tips have proven very helpful when working with all dancers. >> >> John B. Freeman, SFTPOCTJ >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > > End of Callers Digest, Vol 107, Issue 1 > *************************************** _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list [email protected] http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
