Ah, the chicken or the egg issue….
Martha
> On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Alan Winston via Callers
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Martha --
>
> I believe "Double Mad Robin" in ECD is a reimportation from contra of the
> contra-style Mad Robin.
>
> -- Alan
>
> On 12/17/15 7:42 AM, Martha Wild via Callers wrote:
>> Hear, hear, John. I agree with you. I’ve heard this move called "petronella
>> turn" at least since the late 80s and, as you do, just call it as such, and
>> teach where necessary, without a reference to the original dance. Why
>> bother? Most dancers don’t know the original dance - now if I were teaching
>> the original dance I might say this is where this move came from, but
>> otherwise that information is just unnecessary verbiage that no one is
>> listening to and doesn’t help in the teaching. If I were calling a medley
>> without teaching, saying "petronella turn" would get the job done as that’s
>> what the dancers here all know, and balance and spin would confuse utterly,
>> for the reasons you mentioned. What is wrong with using “mad robin” and
>> “petronella”? It’s not as if we have 200 different calls people need to know
>> to do contra - these have been in use regularly for many years now and I
>> don’t quite understand what the fuss is all about.
>>
>> Also, as for “mad robin” not being the same as the ECD version - well, yes
>> and no. What we do is “double mad robin” and that does exist in ECD, though
>> I’m not sure how old the usage is. Contra just doesn’t use the single
>> version, so I suppose we dropped the “double” designation.
>> Martha
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 2:29 AM, John Sweeney via Callers
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Michael Fuerst wrote, "'Balance and spin' has the same number of syllables
>>> as 'Petronella' and avoids unnecessary jargon"
>>>
>>> Hmmm... well if someone says "Petronella" I know that I am balancing forward
>>> and back and then spinning clockwise while moving one place to my right to
>>> the place of the person who was holding my right hand.
>>>
>>> If the caller just says "Balance & Spin" then I don't know which direction
>>> to balance, which way to turn or which way to move (if indeed I move at
>>> all). Set & Turn Single has basically the same meaning as Balance & Spin
>>> but means something completely different.
>>>
>>> I never say "as in Petronella". The move is well enough established in
>>> contra dance that all I have to do is say, "Petronella" and it happens. If
>>> there are new dancers I teach them the move, call it a Petronella, and
>>> everything works fine from then on.
>>>
>>> And we have been clapping for fun in dances for over 400 years now so don't
>>> expect people not to do it! :-)
>>>
>>> Our dancing couldn't survive without jargon. Star. Ladies' Chain,
>>> Allemande, Dosido are all jargon. Would you try calling a contra dance
>>> without using any of those words?
>>>
>>> But none of those words are well defined. Star can mean wrist-lock or
>>> hands-across depending on the next move. Ladies' Chain can mean across, or
>>> across and back depending on which century you are in. Allemande means
>>> completely different things in other dance styles. And Dosido could be a
>>> Mountain Dosido, a Do Paso, an Alabama Rang Tang or a Docey Ding if you are
>>> in a different part of America a century ago.
>>>
>>> I was dancing with another Morris side recently and #1 (the "caller") called
>>> "Allemande". I had never heard that term used in Morris before so I started
>>> to offer my right hand, but the guy opposite me started doing a Back to Back
>>> around me. That is what #1 meant by "Allemande". I thought this very
>>> strange until I was researching "Captain Macintosh" and found Thomas
>>> Wilson's 1820 book "The Complete System of English Country Dancing" which
>>> defined "Allemande" as "Back to Back"!
>>>
>>> Every dancing master in every community in every style in every period in
>>> every country uses the words to mean what they want them to mean. But they
>>> teach their dancers what they mean and then it works. Some calls get
>>> standardised and are easy to use across communities. Others take time to
>>> settle down and may never be universally used. But if jargon allows a group
>>> of dancers to have fun at any particular dance then I am all for it!
>>>
>>> Whether complete standardisation is a good thing or a bad thing is another
>>> matter entirely; we all have our own opinions about MWSD :-)
>>>
>>> Happy dancing,
>>> John
>>>
>>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England [email protected] 01233 625 362
>>> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>>>
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