It also means that I refrain from the following word uses: "Gay" meaning happy. "Cock" meaning rooster. "Pussy" meaning cat. "Douche" meaning to shower.
This, as an aside, was a funny email to write. Apologies for any offended, but I use slang/swear words to make a serious point, and we're all mature here. I hope. Ron On Jan 22, 2016 12:01 PM, "Ron Blechner" <[email protected]> wrote: > Sargon, > > You and I don't get to decide what millions of people think a word means. > it's the nature of language. Logic often has no bearing on it. > > In the same way "negro" is derived from Latin for "black", and aptly may > describe a color, it's still inappropriate and offensive in most human > contexts nowadays. > > When a word stereotypes a group of people, the only ones who get to decide > the proper use of that word is... that group of people. > > ... > > As for contra communities, until there's more groundswell of support for > changing "gypsy", it's an uphill battle. I think perhaps the smart thing > for those of us concerned with not using the word is to educate. At the > same time, I fully respect callers choosing to use their own replacements. > > Ron Blechner > On Jan 22, 2016 11:50 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I disagree. If it is fair to condemn a word despite widespread ignorance >> of its racist etymology (such as the very real problem with the verb >> "gyp"), then the inverse must be true: it is fair to exonerate a word >> despite widespread ignorance of its non-racist etymology (e.g., niggardly). >> That a word falsely gets attributed to a category in which it doesn't >> belong is irrelevant. If two separate meanings/derivations converge to an >> identically spelled modern word, I don't believe the innocent word (when >> used in its original context) deserves to be written off. Let us truly >> abide by what you claim to support: its current use *is* relevant. >> >> >> On Jan 21, 2016, at 13:25, Ron Blechner via Callers < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> Martha, >> >> Regardless of whether it was derived from Welsh hundreds of years ago, >> would you say more than 0.1% of dancers know that? Or, do you think 99.9%+ >> of dancers associate "gypsy" the dance move with the slang for wandering >> people? >> >> Regardless of its origin, its current use is relevant. >> >> Ron >> On Jan 21, 2016 12:15 PM, "Martha Wild via Callers" < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> As mentioned, there are many words we use that are even considered >>> impolite but only depending on context. The nickname for Richard, for >>> example. Lots of men proudly use that as their name, but it’s also a really >>> offensive term. The name Randy has other contexts, yet we use it without >>> any problem in the context of someone with that as their name. (Note the >>> use of the plural for the generic singular pronoun, which I’ve done for >>> years, unhappy with he/him for that term and that just sort of started >>> happening). If our word actually came down from Welsh, and has no >>> relationship to the Romani whatsoever, then it would seem even more reason >>> to recognize that it is context dependent and completely divorced from the >>> pejorative use of the unfortunately similar word in other countries. >>> Martha >>> >>> On Jan 21, 2016, at 5:56 AM, Janet Bertog via Callers < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I have contacted Carol and have begun a discussion. I still have >>> several unanswered questions but one thing I did learn is that the Romani >>> have claimed the word and deemed it offensive and feel it should not be >>> used, in any context, in any language. More about why she herself uses the >>> word later. One thing I asked her was about her insistence on the use of a >>> capital G. To me, this would indicate that Gypsy would refer to the >>> ethnicity, while gypsy would have a possibly completely different meaning. >>> >>> We know that gipsy/gip was being used in country dances at least in 1909 >>> when Cecil Sharp wrote them down. Two of the three dances in the 1909 book >>> originated in the 1500s, one ECD and one Morris Dance from Scotland. We do >>> not know if they originally used the terms gip/gipsy in the 1500s, but we >>> do know that gip, at least, has another meaning in Welsh (a celtic >>> language) - gaze or glance. >>> >>> So, my conversation with Carol is ongoing, and unresolved. But if you >>> feel that a group can claim a word and then claim that it is a slur, there >>> are a lot of other words you should stop using as well. >>> >>> Janet >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 3:00 AM, Erik Hoffman via Callers < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> What's in a word? As this list points out, it gets confusing. >>>> >>>> Like Martha, I stopped using "Ladies," and "Gents," or "Gentlemen," >>>> because they are words steeped in class-ism. And after years of being told >>>> we live in a classless society, the lie of that became clear. >>>> >>>> But, more recently I was approached by a man who felt "Ladies," and >>>> "Gents" were roles anyone could play whereas "Men" and "Women" really did >>>> refer to what was between our legs, and made it more uncomfortable to >>>> switch roles. Also, even though we live in a severely class society, the >>>> words "Ladies" and "Gents" don't seem to carry that weight any more. >>>> >>>> Then again, in Berkeley we've switched to "gender free," and use >>>> "Ravens" and "Larks" now. >>>> >>>> This is all to say, those who come to the dance have many differing >>>> associations with words. And sometimes it is important that we listen. >>>> >>>> Take "He" and "She." We all know that "He" has been the generic pronoun >>>> where "She" refers only to women. Since we live in a society dominated by >>>> the patriarchal Christian religion, it's clear that using "He" and "Him" >>>> generically supports this concept. Many of us, in the sixties and seventies >>>> counteracted this male dominance by using "She" and "Her" as the generic >>>> pronoun. It was startling how different it feels to switch to those. There >>>> are now corners pushing to just use "They" and "Them" for everyone, like we >>>> use "you" for both plural and singular. Maybe it will take hold... >>>> >>>> But all this is to say, these little words do have an affect on how we >>>> think about things. >>>> >>>> So now we are thinking about "gypsy." Or, better with capitalization, >>>> "Gypsy." Is it derogatory? To some, not all. Is that reason enough to >>>> change? Perhaps for some. I've started using "Right Shoulder Turn," and >>>> "Left Shoulder Turn." It doesn't slide off the tongue, an isn't as >>>> colorful, but it is more descriptive. At Contra Carnivale, Susan Michaels >>>> said someone had come up with "Roma-around," or "Romaround.." >>>> >>>> So we're all dealing with it, and considering this as: >>>> >>>> Some of us are attached to our words, and don't want to loose it. Some >>>> of us are vociferous about keeping it. And some of us are searching for a >>>> substitute that might work better. Seems about right. >>>> >>>> Mostly, I want to suggest, as we struggle with this, consider how our >>>> language and word choice does affect others, whether we mean it to or not. >>>> As callers, we are in the public eye--granted a small pond of the >>>> public--but our words do go out there and cause others to think, too. >>>> >>>> What's in a word? A lot. >>>> >>>> ~erik hoffman >>>> oakland, ca >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Callers mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >>
