Comment acheter un PC sans syst�me Windaube dessus, et r�cup�rer le
prix qu'on vous fait payer d'office pour Window$?

Le document est en Anglais, mais il est un t�moignage int�ressant,
surtout pour les lecteurs belges.

URL: http://linux.vandeplas.com/acer/winrefund.htm


(Belgian) Windows Refund @ Acer

   In this page i'll document my story about my Microsoft Windows Refund
   request.
   Comments, questions and help on unsolved issues are welcome. You can
   send me an email at christophe AT vandeplas DOT com
   Christophe Vandeplas

   DISCLAIMER: This page contains ONLY FACTS, I am not trying to tell bad
   things about Acer Computers.
   They make good and cheap
   You will find all the mails and phone calls I made/wrote with my
   (short) comments.

ChangeLog

   - 17 Sep 2004: send a letter to Acer (with signing at receipt)
   - 10 Sep 2004: added the Acer answer + stuff about
   Test-Aankoop/Test-Achats
   - 05 Sep 2004: wrote mail for Acer, not send yet
   - 03 Sep 2004: started this story

Help Wanted

   - Any legal advice is really welcome, please specify in what country
   it is applied
   - People who also have an Acer computer and are trying to get a refund
   - Press Contacts are also welcome. especially in Belgium These
   contacts will be used in case of failure and/or success

Reminder List

   This will become a list of reminders to everyone that will ask a
   refund to his Manufacturer.
- at time of ordering ask if it is possible to have it without OS (even if you
know it is not possible)
- take a GNU/Linux Install CD (or knoppix) to the computer store when going to
get your computer
- print your Microsoft-Windows Removal Certificate (download see later)
- get your laptop and et the store sign/stamp the Certificate and delete all pa
rtitions of the disk in their presence
- go home and install your favorite OS/distro
- contact me (especially if you're belgian)
- start contacting your Manfacturer for a refund. Please do NOT specify you are
 a GNU/Linux g33k
   this is not the priority. You just REJECT the EULA, that's all.

Microsoft-Windows Removal Certificate

   You can find an empty version here : [1]PDF & [2]SXW

Actual Story

   Before ordering my pc @ my computer store I asked if Acer sold PC's
   without OS. Of course I got the usual answer: NO
   So I bought the computer, and refused the Windows EULA:
   "By installing, copying, downloading, accessing or otherwise using the
   SOFTWARE, you agree to be bound by the terms of this EULA. If you do
   not agree to the terms of this EULA, you may not use or copy the
   SOFTWARE, and you should promptly contact Manufacturer for
   instructions on return of the unused product(s) in accordance with
   Manufacturer's return policies"

   The computer store signed my Certificate...

*** 31 Aug 2004 *** First Contact

   I first called the Acer Helpdesk and explained my situation.
me: I bought an Acer laptop and I'm very pleased about it. But now I have a que
stion.
    The first time I started my computer the preinstalled Microsoft Windows ask
s me to accept an EULA
    (End User Licence Agreement). I read that EULA very carefully and cannot ac
cept it.
    The EULA contains this sentence:
       "By installing, copying, downloading, accessing or otherwise using the S
OFTWARE,
        you agree to be bound by the terms of this EULA. If you do not agree to
 the terms of this EULA,
        you may not use or copy the SOFTWARE, and you should promptly contact M
anufacturer for instructions
        on return of the unused product(s) in accordance with Manufacturer's re
turn policies"
    I first removed the SOFTWARE from the computer as requested and am now cont
acting you for instructions
    on return of the SOFTWARE. Could you please tell me what I should do next?T
el 02/542.34.34
van maandag tot vrijdag
van 9u00 tot 12u30 en van 13 tot 17 uur

acer helpdesk: Never heard of that. We do not take software back
me: The EULA says I have to bring that software back because I do not agree wit
h it.
acer helpdesk: please phone our main center (netherlands = international call)
me: Acer Helpdesk send me to you. + same explanation.
acer nederland: one moment please.
// I hear I get tranferred to the helpdesk...
//acer helpdesk: offices closed...doh...

*** 1 Sep 2004 *** Got emailadress

   I call the helpdesk again, explain the situation that happened the day
   before. The guy is very friendly and polite
   He finally gives me an email adress of someone who should be able to
   help me more.
me: called yesterday + explain what happened + about EULA
acer helpdesk: refund not possible, you desided to choose a computer with Micro
soft-Windows.
me: EULA says I should bring the software back, could you give me phone, fax, e
mail?
acer helpdesk: contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] he should reply in around max
1 day

   That's what I immediately did ! I've send the following email:
Dear sir,

I just phoned Acer Helpdesk about a question I have,
they said you should be able to help me further.

I recently bought the Acer Aspire 2012 WLMi.

At the first boot the computer normally asks to install Microsoft
Windows XP Home, and at the first screen it shows the EULA (End User
Licence Agreement). In the past I had to read this EULA many times for
other people, but now it is me who had to accept it.

And I do not accept it.

Let me quote a small part of the agreement:
        "By installing, copying, downloading, accessing or otherwise
        using the SOFTWARE, you agree to be bound by the terms of this
        EULA. If you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, you may not
        use or copy the SOFTWARE, and you should promptly contact
        Manufacturer for instructions on return of the unused product(s)
        in accordance with Manufacturer's return policies"

To confirm the first part, I removed the SOFTWARE immediately at the
computer store. They signed me a certificate to prove it.

I am now sending you this email to ask you "for instructions on return
of the unused product(s)".


Sincerely Yours


Christophe Vandeplas

*** 03 Sep 2004 *** Email from Acer

   I got an answer, 2 days later (acceptable duration)
   This is what he replied
Dear Mister Vandeplas,

If you do not accept the EULA, then XP does not install. But since you bought t
his notebook,
you agreed to the terms of this product. You bought it, so you agreed with thos
e terms.
One of those terms is that your notebook is being sold with Windows O.S. If you
 want to
install other O.S., that is your choise, but we do not give support on other O.
S. then those
delivered with the notebook. Futher, if you call us in the future, with problem
s regarding
hard or software, most of the times me and my collegue's will ask you to prefor
m a recovery
of your system to check if this is a hard or software problem. If you do not re
cover the system,
then there are 2 options:

Or you do not get support by us,
Or the system is being recovered in one of our repair centers. If the problem t
hen is solved,
this is a problem with has been cause by the O.S. you use, and therefore no sup
port.

What you can do, is bring back the notebook back to the reseller,  and ask your
 money back,
or accept the fact that you can install other O.S. but do not get support for t
hat.

The software cannot be returned to us, because it is a part of the product that
 you bought.

With kind regards,

Jan Douwe Merkus
Acer Helpdesk

   This is the answer I expected. I read many stories of people who also
   asked for refunds, and some of them had the same answer. The thing is
   that I have an advantage: they are willing to refund me for the whole
   laptop. I do not want that, but I can use this to go further.

*** 06 Sep 2004 *** Email reply to Acer

   I first wrote my answer, asked to my sister and Brenno De Winter to
   give comments.
   Monday the 6th I went to a free attorney to get some legal advice.
   Here's my reply to Acer
Dear Sir,

Thank you for your reply to my message regarding the return of unused Microsoft
 software.

I was very surprised by the following quote: " since you bought this notebook,
you agreed to the terms of this product." I could find nowhere in the included
documents,
any agreement on the automatical acceptance of Microsoft Windows. If there shou
ld have
been one in the box that was accidentally not included, please send me a copy o
f this
agreement by post (see address below).

The only EULA included, was for Microsoft Windows XP Home. I have fully read an
d refused
this EULA, which only covers the SOFTWARE. As I mentioned in the previous email
,
it even mentions the possibility to refuse and return the unused software.

       "If you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, you may not
       use or copy the SOFTWARE, and you should promptly contact
       Manufacturer for instructions on return of the unused product(s)
       in accordance with Manufacturer's return policies"
       (quoted from the EULA)

I am suprised to read in your email that the Operating System cannot be separat
ed from the computer.
Such compulsory conditional sales are an infringement of both the Belgian and E
uropean law.

I am therefore asking you to send me instructions on the procedure for return o
f the unused sotware
or to provide me the contact information of the person in charge.

I thank you for your collaboration and hope we'll find a solution soon,

Sincerely yours

Christophe Vandeplas

My address:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

*** 07 Sep 2004 *** Email from Acer

   What I feel in this mail is that the person do not directly want to
   speak about the EULA
   This is what he replied
Dear mister Vandeplas,

So this means that you have bought the notebook, but did not know that it was b
een shipped with Windows XP?
You had no information about our notebooks being preinstalled with  Windows XP.
 You did not read any of the specs?
In that case I can understand that you want your money back. But if you bought
the notebook, with XP as a
specifiaction (like Wlan, or Bluetooth, Widescreen etc) this means you bought i
t, and agreed that XP was also
delivered with your notebook. If you do not want to make use of XP, then the on
ly sollution is to bring back the
notebook and ask your money back, because we do not refund XP licences.

With kind regards,

Jan Douwe Merkus

*** 10 Sep 2004 *** Test-Aankoop opens a File

   2 days ago I contacted Test-Aankoop to ask for some help. They gave me
   the advice to make me member so I could have free advice, and they
   whould open a 'File' (dutch:dossier).
   Today I called again to ask if they got my mail, they guy told me they
   started a File (number 333846)
   I've send the mail I got the 7th from Acer (see above).
   Now I have to be patient...

*** 17 Sep 2004 *** Letter send to Acer BeNeLux

   Test-Aankoop told me I should send a letter to Acer (with signing at
   receipt of the letter)
   That's what I did. you can find my (dutch) letter here:
   [3]Acer.aangetekende.brief.pdf

Thanks

   - [4]Test-Aankoop / Test-Achats, a consumer organisation, who will
   help me handle this case
   - [5]Allwebsales computers who signed me my "Windows Removal
   Certificate"
   - [6]IDJ.be Information et documentation des jeunes et du grand public
   ! for their free legal advice
   - Werner Heuser @ [7]tuxmobil.org for adding a link to this page on
   the website
   - Brenno J.S.A.A.F. de Winter from [8]www.dewinter.com for his support
   - YOU for reading this page
   - YOU for giving me tips and work TOGETHER to get a refund
   [9]Tuxmobil listed [10]Valid CSS! [11]Valid XHTML 1.0! 

References

   1. http://linux.vandeplas.com/acer/windows.removal.certificate.pdf
   2. http://linux.vandeplas.com/acer/windows.removal.certificate.sxw
   3. http://linux.vandeplas.com/acer/Acer.aangetekende.brief.pdf
   4. http://www.test-aankoop.be/
   5. http://www.allwebsales.be/
   6. http://www.idj.be/
   7. http://www.tuxmobil.org/
   8. http://www.dewinter.com/
   9. http://tuxmobil.org/
  10. http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
  11. http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=referer

Aldo.


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