I think we are talking of different things.

You're complaining about multiple versions of core, which has only has
only one live release, the 1.2. Same about Windsor: In a six months
window, only two versions were released, and all our stack works
against the released version.

Cheers,
Henry Conceição



On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Paul Cowan <[email protected]> wrote:
> Marcus,
>
> Horn can and should be used.
>
> But not everything is compiling and I honestly do not know where to point
> the descriptors to.
>
> My points are this and please choose to ignore them as the ramblings of a
> mad Irish man:
>
> 1.  Creating multiple versions quickly like Castle.Core 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 is
> confusing.
> 2.  Having multiple versions of other castle libraries like castle.windsor
> with different named versions 2.1, 3.0 is confusing.
> 3.  No way of being to use multiple versions of the castle stack is not good
> at best.
>
> As I said earlier, I love Castle but it is becoming impossible to use.
>
> I have heard this criticism from others.
>
> It is useful feedback and if nothing else, an interesting problem to solve.
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul Cowan
>
> Cutting-Edge Solutions (Scotland)
>
> http://thesoftwaresimpleton.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> On 4 March 2010 14:35, Markus Zywitza <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Hm, I was hoping that HORN would be the solution for that kind of
>> problem...
>>
>> I had this upgrade paralysis back when Castle still was a single trunk
>> project, I just had it with Castle, NH and Rhino alone. To overcome
>> it, I created a NAnt file that did what HORN does now.
>>
>> -Markus
>>
>> 2010/3/4 Paul Cowan <[email protected]>:
>> > Thanks for the reply Michael, I (obviously) think this is a conversation
>> > worth having.
>> > But surely you are not saying that in order to use a stack with many
>> > castle
>> > parts, I need to, and I quote:
>> >
>> > "create a fork of each project (from a tag, release,
>> > branch, trunk, wherever), and integrate them so they all work
>> > together"
>> >
>> > I know how to do this and have but I do not want to.  It is also
>> > intensified
>> > by all the other OSS projects that use castle like nhibernate, rhino and
>> > the
>> > rest.  Must I retrieve the source of these projects and then use PSake
>> > or
>> > whatever else is du jour in order to rebuild my stack?
>> >
>> > Surely we can do better than that?  Other platforms do.
>> >
>> > Ruby is better because the RubyGems package manager takes care of the
>> > installation of reusable libraries called gems.  It is a joy to work
>> > with.
>> >  It is easier in Ruby because they are working with code files and not
>> > binary files but it is truly amazing and shows how poor horn is in
>> > comparison.
>> >
>> > If nobody else sees this as a problem and just an occasional challenge
>> > then
>> > I will be quiet.
>> >
>> > At the moment I have a stack that if anything uses too much OSS.  I am
>> > paralysed in my upgrade path.
>> >
>> > Surely that last statement is an oxymoron?
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Paul Cowan
>> >
>> > Cutting-Edge Solutions (Scotland)
>> >
>> > http://thesoftwaresimpleton.blogspot.com/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 4 March 2010 14:04, Michael Maddox <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Paul,
>> >>
>> >> Managing dependencies is time consuming at best, extremely difficult at
>> >> worst.
>> >>
>> >> That is why so many people avoid dependencies like the plague.
>> >>
>> >> Krzysztof said that he thinks two months is long enough to update
>> >> dependencies, and while that feels reasonable, it's just not.
>> >> Updating dependencies is a distraction.  It doesn't, in general, make
>> >> end users lives better.  It's "make work".
>> >>
>> >> Any project focused on making user's lives better is going to avoid
>> >> dependencies and waste as little time managing dependencies as
>> >> possible.  That means they aren't likely to upgrade to the latest
>> >> version of a dependency unless there is a solid user focused reason to
>> >> do so (and personally I always fret about regressions from new bugs in
>> >> the new version).
>> >>
>> >> So, if you are forced to take on dependencies, your only recourse is
>> >> to aggressively manage those dependencies.
>> >>
>> >> I think HornGet is a fantastic piece of engineering and I honestly
>> >> don't know enough about Ruby to know why life is theoretically better
>> >> there, but I know this problem fundamentally can't be made to go away.
>> >>
>> >> It should be possible for any reasonably experienced developer to take
>> >> the Castle stack, create a fork of each project (from a tag, release,
>> >> branch, trunk, wherever), and integrate them so they all work
>> >> together.  This isn't a version number issue or a release cycle issue
>> >> so much as it is a "does the thing compile and pass all integration
>> >> tests" issue.
>> >>
>> >> It takes time and effort and doesn't necessarily feel like things are
>> >> moving forward.
>> >>
>> >> -Michael Maddox
>> >> http://www.capprime.com/software_development_weblog/
>> >>
>> >> 2010/3/3 Paul Cowan <[email protected]>:
>> >> >>> What else do you think could Castle project do?
>> >> >
>> >> > I always wonder why this does not seem to be such a big problem in
>> >> > Java.
>> >> >  How do they not have these versioning problems given their inherent
>> >> > similarities?
>> >> >
>> >> > As far as castle is concerned, it would make sense to have a
>> >> > versioned
>> >> > build
>> >> > of everything.  That is we can say that all castle libraries are at
>> >> > the
>> >> > same
>> >> > version.
>> >> >
>> >> > At the moment, we have 3 versions of castle core 1.2, 1.4 etc. and
>> >> > different
>> >> > versions of castle windsor 2.1, 3.
>> >> >
>> >> > This seems very disconnected.  Should there not be a build that is
>> >> > all
>> >> > at
>> >> > the same version?
>> >> >
>> >> > In the grand scheme of things, I think ALL .NET OSS needs to work
>> >> > together
>> >> > to try and alleviate this nightmare. There are a multitude of great
>> >> > initiatives being held back by all working at different versions of
>> >> > shared
>> >> > libraries.
>> >> >
>> >> > Releases should not happen every month, that is, we do not say there
>> >> > is
>> >> > 2.1
>> >> > finished this week, lets go straight on to 3 next and 3.1 the week
>> >> > after.
>> >> >
>> >> > Maybe working to stricter interfaces would help for binary
>> >> > compatibility.
>> >> >
>> >> > There are soooooooooooo many different versions of the boo libraries
>> >> > kicking
>> >> > around it is crazy.
>> >> >
>> >> > I like the idea of a shared repo where people can pull their shared
>> >> > libraries from rather than just going to the OSS project of choice
>> >> > and
>> >> > pulling down the latest which is why we are where we are.
>> >> >
>> >> > Getting a delivery mechanism for .NET OSS like ruby gems is currently
>> >> > practically impossible due to .NET's assembly model and the wild west
>> >> > approach of dependency management.
>> >> >
>> >> > I know because I have tried!
>> >> >
>> >> > Any thoughts?  Am I alone in thinking this is something that really
>> >> > needs
>> >> > cracked on a large scale?
>> >> >
>> >> > Cheers
>> >> >
>> >> > Paul Cowan
>> >> >
>> >> > Cutting-Edge Solutions (Scotland)
>> >> >
>> >> > http://thesoftwaresimpleton.blogspot.com/
>> >>
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