catalina27-talk: Window Light Seal Replacement

[Henry Hubbard]

Greetings!   Only ten months later, I spent the weekend (except for a nice sail on Sunday afternoon - no wind Sat anyway) replacing the window seals - that's a lot of work! The most excellent advice below was great in guiding me - thanks. Like most projects I do, I was really good at it by the time I was finished - in fact I was pretty darn good by the second window. I would like to offer the following small addendums to the process, which I think will prove useful.   1. A pair of clamps - about 12" is a very helpful addition to the tools list. 2. When placing the molding around the glass, go back and apply gentle pressure around the edge of the glass, then go around the edge of the glass and squeeze the sides of the molding - the caulk will ooze out some from the molding. The object is to remove the small bumps of caulk which are easy to gently squeeze out, but can cause diffuculty when they add up to resist getting the frame on. 3. Instead of removing the applicator tip and filling the frame channel, leaving it on and run a small (about 1/8" - like in the molding) bead just inside each edge of the channel is a much better description of what is required. 4. When reassembling, gently hold the molding on the glass in front of the sliding channel. The when the two frame sides are together gently clamping - just to hold them together while installing the screws - is quite helpful.     Henry Hubbard Idle Threat C27 #1067 Dahlgren, VA ----- Original Message ----- From: James Reinardy To: catalina27-talk@memberclicks.com Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 1:50 PM Subject: RE: catalina27-talk: Window seals? Dave,   I did this project last year.  I think it is imperative to remove the old frames.  On my 79, the edges of the hull were completely open, and damp.  After letting them dry, I filled the cavity with West System epoxy.  This gave me a much firmer base to seal against besides contributing to the seal itself.  As others have, I used Butyl tape to seal the frame, and the CD molding against the glass.  No leaks this season at all.  My best guide was an article off the old Sailnet FTP site.  I saved the original html file, the text is below.  The picture is attached, not sure if it will come through.  Let me know if you need that emailed off list.   Good Luck!   Jim Reinardy C27 #4223 “Irie” Milwaukee, WI   Catalina Window Rebedding One of the most commonly asked questions on the internet lists is how to reseat the windows in our precious boats. I am about to describe how to go about removing, disassembling, cleaning, reassembling and reinstalling these pains. I am sure there are other methods out there, but this is what we have used on two boats and it has worked well for us on both. Use the a diagram above of the window's parts so we can speak the same language as we go along. PREPARATION Before you ever tackle this job, start assembling the things that you will need. Contact Catalina Direct and order the window molding and trim. They have it in the appropriate length for the various sizes of Catalinas. Also, get some marine grade silicon or Life Caulk. Use marine grade because it has special UV inhibitors to prevent breakdown in constant exposure to sunlight. The tools you will need are a good sharp knife, a phillip's head screwdriver, and a flat blade screwdriver. You might want to consider a drill with a screwdriver bit chucked in to save your wrist in the first and last steps. Get some Brillo or SOS pads, and some alcohol or acetone. You will also need some paper towels and some soap. REMOVAL The first thing you need to do is to get the window out of the side of your boat. On the inside of the window is the Inside Trim Ring (3). Remove all the screws and put them in a safe place. The ring will probably fall off in your hands. No worry. Pull out the wide rubber Trim Strip (12) and set it aside. Now the window is being held in place by whatever you, the factory, or the previous owner used to seal the window the last time this was done. It is best to have two people for this next operation. Have someone on the outside stand by with a knife, while the person on the inside forces out EVENLY on the window frame. Don't shove in one spot, because the window might flex and break the glass. Once there is a separation starting, have the person on the outside slip the knife blade between the Outside Lip (2) and the hull to aid in breaking the seal. Continue pressing out patiently and the bond will slowly break until the person on the outside can pull the window out. This is a perfect time to examine the hull area around the window to see if there are signs of rot or other conditions that would require attention. DISASSEMBLY Now that you have it in your hands, give the window a good looking over. You will see that there are two halves to the aluminum frame. They are held together by a small bridging piece of aluminum with two screws (6). These screws go into either half of the frame and hold it together. Remove one screw from each of these bridging strips and slide a screwdriver blade between the gap between the two frame halves. The aluminum halves will separate and come apart in your hands. Remove the second piece from the glass and you will see the rubber molding (11) that runs around the edge of the glass. Pull off the rubber molding. Your window is now completely disassembled. CLEANING Now the fun starts! You need to clean these parts to the best of your ability. Probably, you are looking at a lot of silicon. You need to scrape all that out of the tracks, and off the glass. After it is all gone, use SOS or Brillo pads to clean every inch of the tracks, including the backside of the outer lip. This will be the most time consuming portion of the task. You need to be meticulous about this. I can't stress this enough. After you are sure that it is clean, clean it again and rinse, rinse, rinse. If there is even a trace of soap left, it will prevent the silicon or butyl from sticking and make the whole process a waste of time. While you are waiting for the parts to dry, and your strength to return, take the new window molding and fit it around the glass. Do not stretch it! Lay it around the glass and when you get to the point where you started, cut the molding off flush with the start end. You want these sections pushing against each other when you put the window back in, so give it plenty. Use soap and water, and if necessary, the Brillo or SOS pad on the area around the window opening on the hull as well. After you are done with this, clean the area with either alcohol or acetone. Do the same for the glass, and from then on, DO NOT TOUCH THOSE WITH YOUR BARE FINGERS. REASSEMBLY Take a fresh tube of silicon and cut the applicator nozzle so that it will produce a bead no more than an 1/8th of an inch wide. Hold the window molding open with the tip and put a small bead inside the molding's U shape. Don't go overboard, but don't be stingy, either. Run the bead from one end to the other. Start at the middle of the bottom of the glass and press the molding onto the glass. It will get messy at the corners, but don't be deterred. Run the molding around and press it on with a gentle pressure. You will probably have to bend the molding back from the point of contact to keep the track open. When you are finished, the molding will completely cover the outer edge of the glass. Set it aside for a few minutes. Take the applicator tip off the silicon tube. Take the top half of the outer frame (1) and fill the bottom of the Window Gap (7) with silicon. Again, don't go overboard, but don't be stingy, either. Do the same with the bottom half of the outer frame. Take the glass with the window molding on it and fit it back into the bottom half of the outer frame. Be careful to keep pressure on the place where the window molding butts together so it doesn't split open as you are pressing the frame over it. When it is seated, take the top of the frame and force it down onto the glass. Replace the screws in the bridging strips as soon as you can. This will keep the windows together and prevent any gaps from forming. Take a few seconds and wipe off any excess silicon with a paper towel. REINSTALLATION Lay the assembled window frame on a flat surface and take the butyl tape and begin running it around the inside of the outside lip. As you put it on, do not stretch it! Press it down lightly to get it to stick to the frame. When you get to the corners, don't stretch the outer edges as your make the turns. Instead, compress the inside radius. You want to have an even thickness of the butyl at the corners as you have at the rest of the run. When you get back to your starting point, butt the pieces together. If you have a little overlap, it won't hurt anything. Now you need to get your partner back into the game. Have your outside helper position the frame at the hull opening, and have the person on the inside direct the person on the outside to get the window in the right position to have the maximum contact of the outside lip with the hull. Once the inside person is satisfied with the location, have the person on the outside apply firm, constant pressure on the window. On the inside, place the Inside Trim Ring (3) back in place and install the screws LOOSLY. These screws are going into the window frame, not the hull. You will be pressing the window in with the pull of the outer edge of the inside trim ring against the hull on one side, and the outer lip on the other. When all the screws are started, begin tightening in a "star" pattern, just like the method you use to install the lug nuts on a car wheel. Continue going around the pattern until the screws are all tight. Your outside helper should be watching the butyl being pushed out around the lip. This is OK. Once the screws are all tight, take the new Trim Strip (12) and install it in it's track, cutting it off when it butts against itself. Now, take a break. Go away for a day, or the week. Yes, I know it looks terrible, with the butyl tape oozing out around the edge of your windows, but let it alone. When you come back, take a sharp knife and cut the extruded butyl tape off. It will pull right off without a fight. Now, take your finger, wet it, and go around the outside of the window, mashing the butyl tape down so that it forms a good seal with both the hull and the window frame lip. THAT'S IT! Now, just do this as many times as you have windows, and you probably won't have to do it again for several years. Last Updated: 10/24/2004 20:14:39     From: catalina27-talk@memberclicks.com [mailto:catalina27-talk@memberclicks.com] On Behalf Of Phil Agur Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 11:37 AM To: catalina27-talk@memberclicks.com Subject: RE: catalina27-talk: Window seals?   Dave,   I’m hoping others with a little more direct experience will chime in. Out of the three Catalinas I’ve owned only one had the metal framed windows and they never leaked while we owned her. The other two were/are the frameless bedded dark Plexiglas style used on the C270 and common to Catalinas introduced after 1986.   Yes I have the past Mainsheets as paper issues. I just sent my computer off on a search for the word “window” in any document so we could find a remnant of an earlier MS scan project file that may have been moved to this newer PC. Other than that I need to head out to the shop today and work on a fixture so I can capture page images quickly and start the process from the beginning.      Bingo – we have a winner from Technical Editor Harry Cowgill in August 2000. This has been though an OCR conversion so typos or conversion errors are plentiful. Obviously what’s on its way to a website near you will be much cleaner and in PDF format. But if you look in Community under Technical Articles you’ll find a working link.   Window Seal Repairs .Those Leaking Windows: From time to time I hope this helps.   Phil Agur                    s/v Wing Tip Commodore,             Call Sign WCW3485 IC27/270A                   MMSI 366901790 www.catalina27.org      Vessel Doc# 1039809 -----Original Message----- From: catalina27-talk@memberclicks.com [mailto:catalina27-talk@memberclicks.com] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 6:09 PM To: catalina27-talk@memberclicks.com Subject: Re: catalina27-talk: Window seals?   Phil, I plan on dealing with window seals this winter.  The last 3 day rain we had i ended up with 2.5 gallons of water inside bilge and my port locker.  In regards to sealing between hull and frames, you do remove the frames completely from the hull and then add sealer, correct?  I have seen boats that apparently haven't removed windows before sealing!!!  How long does it normally cure at about 50ºF?  What about gaps that may (will) be found in hull once frames removed?  What have you found is the best solution about filling any voids? I think I will open up the limber hole to the port locker.  Anything that I should be aware of?  I received an email that said you may have a past article from Mainsheet...do you? Dave Tierney Celtic Pride, 5282 1983 C-27 Middle River, Maryland Fleet 19, Northern Chesapeake