Thanks Moushira I think Diane explained in the other thread (called Jordanian licenses) what the policy of CC concerning legal issues is. She has also explained very clearly what happened with the Jordanian license - despite what Rami claims ,everything at the time happened in public.. we could stay here forever to discuss this but it will be counterproductive and annoying also for the other people reading this list who in many occasions have sent pvt messages asking to keep the list for communication and just brief discussions- I think I clearly described you what are the activities we`ve been doing in the Region (not only events and parties actually!content production: music,websites,comics etc) I`ve also underlined in that email very clear things on which we could eventually collaborate with the Wikipedia community. I`d also love to hear what`s your strategy and the Wikipedians `vision vis-a-vis the region As I said, I`m happy to have a call with you and with anybody from Wikipedia and CC community who wishes to join to discuss, brainstorm and design common policies. Cooperation is more than needed in the region, especially these days I also support Howaida`s proposition to set a meeting and discuss how to better implement Arabic content production in the region So let`s let set skype meetings to talk about this and hopefully make a common strategy Pls everybody in the community who`s interested in this do email me so we`ll set a list of people who would like to be on the call as for the legal discussion and the license 4.0 brief, Diane has offered already to set a specific call for this . pls contact her so she can set a conference call date for the Arab region salam dona
On Mar 29, 10:31 pm, Moushira Elamrawy <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks for your reply Dona, I really appreciate your elaborate reply, > however, sorry to tell that I again disagree with you :)) > > On 3/27/12, [email protected] <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Hi everybody > > thanks for the interesting discussion > > for the legal issues concerning CC Jordan, version 4.0 etc I`ll leave > > HQ answering. This is a global strategy, not a regional one, so I feel > > they would be right people to answer,so I `ll ask Diane our general > > counsel to jump into this discussion > > Not sure I understand how the separation works? I thought the regional > strategy is part of the global strategy by default. > > > > > > > > > > > I can certainly answer from the regional point of view and the > > community activities in the Arab world. Moushira you`re quite new in > > the community but we have done lots of things, last but not least the > > first experiment of joint music content creation in Tunis, which we > > have just recorded. If you go back to the messages in this list you > > will see that we have done a 3 hours concert in Tunis, music workshops > > that have led to the production of these tracks.This is content > > creation, indeed. And CC does not produce content directly, of course, > > but we try to create the opportunity and the platform to do it. > > Then we have done a number of Salons, a regional project called CC > > Iftar twice, 3 regional meetings, a collective project called CC > > Evolution, art exhibitions, parties, community meetings in many Arab > > countries and we are planning now the first Salon in Algeria and > > Palestine and hopefully Morocco too. > > I think we have done lots of activities and we`ll continue doing, > > despite the very difficult times the region is living in. > > I am new to the list, but I have been following CC's progress in the > region, since I became engaged with Wikipedia, as a volunteer, in > 2007. The gatherings are very nice of course and a wonderful idea to > socialize and share ideas, we can't start without them, but what are > the strategies of these gatherings? What are the lesson learnt..and > how do we move to the-after-partying steps? > > > You have to remember that this is a volunteer based and run community > > so everything that comes out comes out from the time and generosity of > > people that are donating their time and skills. I think to this > > respect the Arabs have been doing amazing stuff in these past years > > I obviously mentioned my involvement with Wikipedia as a volunteer > myself, so I understand how that works, and my current consultation > with Wikimedia involves working with a much lager number of CC > volunteers, so I don't think I am missing that part. > > > As for legal adoption, I agree with you that this is important but > > there are limits to what we can do: first of all, being volunteer > > based, this process is also left to the generosity of our affiliate > > teams. We dont do legal lobbying directly, it is up to our affiliates > > to do legal work in their countries. And the IP situation is so > > different in the Arab world, where there are very creative countries > > with lots of content but completely not interested in enforcing IP , > > others with much more strict laws and interest in the topic. We cannot > > simply generalize. > > Again, talking about strategies. Because legal nodes have already > progressed in their contribution, as you just mentioned, so why did > things completely stop at some point? > > > Also, I dont think that it`s the lack of a local ported license that > > prevents people from using CC or writing for Wikipedia. Globally, the > > majority of CC community uses the unported cause it is the more > > convenient when you create content for global distribution..this is > > also the one that, in the Region, was used by Al Jazeera. They didnt > > wait for a CC Qatar license to be ported, they used the global. As > > much as the Wikipedia community does not have to wait for ported > > licenses to create content, the global license is valid and enforced, > > so nobody should be fearful to use it, it has a legal value indeed. > > Do I understand from that that the global CC strategy is to enforce > the global license, rather than the localized ones? If this helps the > cause of global sharing, then thats fine, but then why did the legal > teams volunteered their team on the localization work earlier? > > > > > > > > > > > Now if the two communities want to help each other I think they can > > cooperate in translation,for example: cause the global license is > > still in English and not in Arabic.There have been efforts to > > translate a global unported license in Arabic and our legal leads were > > working together to do this, but there are so many community based non > > legal translations to do! > > For example the human deeds..For example contributing for the regional > > website in Arabic which is so far existing but with very few > > contribution, and mostly coming only from CC Qatar > >http://www.ccarabworld.org/ar/ > > > So if we want to coordinate these efforts within the two communities > > this would be great > > > Also, maybe we should set a joint community meeting -on the web- where > > we invite the communities to make proposals and give their point of > > views cause there are many people who dont like to use the list for > > long discussions, they usually email for example on private basis.. > > do you think it would be a good idea to do a web seminar to discuss > > these issues with whoever in the communities is interested? > > As I mentioned earlier. Discussions and gatherings are so important, > but at the moment, I still have several un-answered question among > this thread, so we need to start on clear basis, in order to be more > efficient. As a regional coordinator Dona, I appreciate your helping > me figuring what are the problems, and what are the small steps that > can make a difference, without discussing general political or > cultural issues, please. > > Back to legal: Do we need the localized license at all, or shall we > just use the global one and stop the legal activities? If this is not > the case, then why did the work done in Egypt and Jordan hibernate, is > it an admin issue? > > There should be a strategy: Do we need legal lobbying or no? If no, > thats good news, however it means that the lawyers here have been > wasting their time. If the answer is yes, then how isCC as a > foundation supporting those efforts lead by volunteers? If the > foundation doesn't have to support those efforts, then can you at > least brief to me what are the deficiencies within the regional legal > status? Do we need more lawyers? Do we need more outreach? Are there > certain community building strategies? These are all un-answered > questions that I can't figure out myself. > > Sorry about writing long.. > > Thanks, > M > > > > > > > > > I think Diane will also do the same for the 4.0 stuff, to explain > > people who are interested what is that. But I prefer to keep the two > > discussions separated > > > Howeida, thanks for your input it would be wonderful to discuss more > > in depth how we could think about a strategy for content creation > > > Best > > dona > > > On Mar 24, 2:40 pm, Moushira Elamrawy <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Interesting info. > > >> I totally agree with Rami's input on the importance of legal lobbying. I > >> think this is is key and this is should be the first priority for CC > >> Arabia. > > >> I also hear Howaida on the issue of open content and the importance of > >> defining a strategy for content creation, however, I am not sure what are > >> the tools that CC has for supporting or boosting content creation? > > >> Speaking of where I belong, I am a consultant to Wikimedia for Arabic > >> projects, and our focus is on community building in line with content > >> creation. We currently have some info about plans on our wikis, however by > >> next week, solid exact projects will be shared soon. We have the tools of > >> content creation and community building, since this normally how our > >> activities are designed, but the usual problem we face, is when we start > >> talking about open content and open license, and how "shareable" the > >> Wikipedia content is, because people wouldn't understand what that is. > >> Creative Commons isn't localized in many countries (it is translated, but > >> I > >> think the only "localized" version is the Egyptian - Correct me is > >> mistaken). License localization is key. Supporting CC groups in their > >> outreach activities is key. > > >> As far as Wikipedia is involved, by default we do promote to CC which by > >> default helps create content, however, however, we need CC's support in > >> legal lobbying and structuring this lobbying across the region. Any > >> strategy how legal and tech teams can work together across the region? > >> What > >> are the countries that lack legal support, i.e. countries with communities > >> of artists and IT, but lacks legal experts? > > >> I am open to any support that myself as an individual, or again as far as > >> Wikimedia projects are concerned, can offer, so that we have a significant > >> shift in the near future. > > >> Thanks, > >> Moushira > > >> On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Rami Olwan <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Dear all, > > >> > I usually don't respond but I have to make things clear here for the > >> > record. CC Jordan was the first to adopt and port the CC project for the > >> > Arab world. Ziad and I have been working on this project from its early > >> > stage of international development. CC Jordan did the first launch of > >> > the > >> > project (not licenses) and the first CC saloon in the Arab world in > >> > November 2009. There was no other translation done in Arabic and we had > >> > to > >> > translate every single word and read other licences specially those > >> > similar > >> > to our civil law jurisdiction in Jordan (French and Spanish licences). > >> > All > >> > 5 Jordanian CC licenses (version 3) were finalised since August 2010 > >> > before other jurisdictions and you can view a sample licence here > >> >http://staging.creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/jo/legalcode. I can > >> > explain the legal changes > > ... > > read more » -- لقد تلقيت هذه الرسالة لأنك مشترك في المجموعة "CC Arab World المشاع الإبداعي" من مجموعات Google. للنشر في هذه المجموعة، أرسل بريدًا إلكترونيًا إلى [email protected] لإلغاء اشتراكك في هذه المجموعة، أرسل رسالة إلكترونية إلى [email protected]. للحصول على مزيد من الخيارات، يمكنك الانتقال إلى هذه المجموعة على العنوان http://groups.google.com/group/cc-arab-world?hl=ar.
