Yeah, gotcha!

So the problem here is fragmentation. I need to read some points of RFC to
understand how fragmentations goes on IPSEC as I haven`t read anything yet.
I thought router had something to handle such thing with the command "crypto
isakmp fragmentation". I gotta understand what does this command

Thanks Piotr.

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 9:22 AM, Piotr Matusiak <[email protected]> wrote:

> Bruno,
>
> The problem with AM is that it does not provide Identity protection (as
> this info is in clear text) and may cause DoS issues because the responder
> must generate KE material to send back to the initiator.
>
> I'm not saying that KE is protected in MM, the problem is with
> fragmentation. If you want to send all those information in one packet this
> may be an issue. In MM you're sending the same info in 3 different packets
> (#1,#3,#5) from the Initiator perspective. In AM you must send it at once,
> so that Proposals+KE+Identity(if it is certificate) may be a way larger than
> 1500 bytes (or 1300 as it is sometimes configured on the IPSec Client).
>
>
> Regards,
> Piotr
>
>
> 2011/1/7 Bruno <[email protected]>
>
>> Sure it does. Thanks Piotr.
>>
>> Which fragmentation issue could be seen? I didn`t think about it so far
>> and have no clue why it would be a problem
>>
>> For instance, the cisco vpn client for whatever new connection, if you
>> debug on the server side, we could see lots of proposals being sent. It
>> seems it tries all possibilities.
>> Wouldn`t it fall to fragmentation issue you referred?
>>
>> About security, as per my understanding, using RSA certificates, isn`t
>> true that the attacker should get more informations to be able to guess the
>> DH shared key?
>> Even though it sends the Key material (in general goes in the 3rd and 4th
>> message in MM and it goes in plain text as well) we would loose a lot using
>> pre-shared key maybe with AG then with certificates.
>>
>> Well, sorry if the text got confused. Just tried to understand your points
>> and discuss then
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Piotr Matusiak <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Gents,
>>>
>>> Let me chime in and add something to the discussion.
>>>
>>> Although it would be possible to use certificates with AM it brings a
>>> little value in my opinion.
>>> In AM everything is sent over with the very first packet including
>>> Identity Payload. This means the certificate used as ID would be easily
>>> accessed by everyone as this packet is not encrypted. There is no identity
>>> protection at all in AM.
>>>
>>> The main reason for Cisco not to implement certificates with AM is the
>>> potential problem with fragmentation. Note that the first packet contains
>>> Proposals, KE material, and Identity, so if we would use certificates the
>>> packet will be way above 1500 bytes.
>>> For the same reason developers must NOT include all combination of
>>> proposals - the packet length must be controlled.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope it will bring some light to that topic.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Piotr
>>>
>>> 2011/1/7 Bruno <[email protected]>
>>>
>>> Yeah, it wouldn't work as well
>>>>
>>>> My main config was:
>>>>
>>>> crypto isakmp pol 10
>>>>   auth rsa-sig
>>>> crypto isakmp profile AM
>>>>  initiate mode aggressive
>>>> crypto map CMAP 10 isakmp-profile AM
>>>>
>>>> This results is the IOS jumping from AM to MM. If you change the isakmp
>>>> policy to pre-shared keys, it will work with AM as expected
>>>>
>>>>  I wonder if there is any weakness that made Cisco to avoid such
>>>> behavior
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Jerome Dolphin <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Woops, no it doesn't help, forget I sent anything :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Jerome Dolphin 
>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Does this help?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://blog.ine.com/tag/aggressive-mode/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> crypto isakmp profile AGGRESSIVE
>>>>>>  initiate mode aggressive
>>>>>>  self-identity fqdn
>>>>>>  keyring default
>>>>>> !
>>>>>> crypto map VPN isakmp-profile AGGRESSIVE
>>>>>> crypto map VPN 10 ipsec-isakmp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 2:42 AM, Bruno <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At least it was what I understood reading it
>>>>>>> Take a look on the 5.1 and 5.2 topics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 5.1 IKE Phase 1 Authenticated With Signatures
>>>>>>> 5.2 Phase 1 Authenticated With Public Key Encryption
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Within each one you'll find how it should behave in MM and AM.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Vybhav Ramachandran <
>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello Bruno,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I always thought that Digital certificates could only work in Main
>>>>>>>> Mode. I'm yet to go through that RFC though.I'll go through it in a 
>>>>>>>> while.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> TacACK
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Bruno Fagioli (by Jaunty Jackalope)
>>>>>>> Cisco Security Professional
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training,
>>>>>>> please visit www.ipexpert.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Bruno Fagioli (by Jaunty Jackalope)
>>>> Cisco Security Professional
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training,
>>>> please visit www.ipexpert.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bruno Fagioli (by Jaunty Jackalope)
>> Cisco Security Professional
>>
>
>


-- 
Bruno Fagioli (by Jaunty Jackalope)
Cisco Security Professional
_______________________________________________
For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit 
www.ipexpert.com

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