I'm writing this post for three purposes. 1. Thank all the enthusiastic repliers (Jan Kern, Bob Cudney, Zhijie Li, Kris Tesh...). With your help, I finally find the appropriate devices and get other useful advices about my experiment designing.
2. Conclusion of my last post. If you'r looking for a "bench top incubator" for crystallization, and you're caring about features as follows: a. No compressor.Peltier-based heating/cooling, reducing vibration dramatically. b. Programmable temperature cycling control. c. Temperature rang is from 4~70 Celsius degree. d. Bench top size, small enough with resonable price. e. Designed for crystallization. you can look into these two providers: I. Molecular Dimensions http://www.moleculardimensions.com/shopquestion1.asp?id=3573 MD5-600 27.5L Bench Top (Non Programmable) Incubator MD5-601 27.5L Bench Top (Fully-Programmable) Incubator MD5-602 55L Bench Top (Non Programmable) Incubator MD5-603 55L Bench Top (Fully-Programmable) Incubator Price is about $3k~$4k II. Torrey Pines Scientific http://www.torreypinesscientific.com/products/incubators/echotherm-in30-in35-in40-and-in45-bench-top-incubators Echotherm IN30 (Non Programmable) $2,635.00 Echotherm IN35 (Non Programmable) $3030.00 Echotherm IN40 (Non Programmable) $3,495.00 Echotherm IN45 (Non Programmable) $3,710.00 3. An additional question: Does anyone has exprience to use one of these (or both) devices from the 2 providers before? What's your feeling about the device you bought? Any defects or advantages impress you? If any possible, give me some suggestions or recommedation about which provider I should choose. Thank you again! Jun ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jan Kern <[email protected]> Date: 2012/6/14 Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Where to get a thermo-cycling controlled chamber To: Jun Ma <[email protected]>, [email protected] Hi Jun, Molecular Dimensions has a programmable temperature incubator (MD 5-601) for about $4500 and Torrey Pines Scientific sells a very similar model (Echotherm IN35) for about $3000. Both are Peltier cooled and go from 4-70 C with a sample chamber of 27 L. Greetings, Jan On 6/14/12 11:57 AM, Jun Ma wrote: Hi everyone, I think my first post did not clearly describe the machine I need. It's very kind of Zhijie and other repliers to reminde me this problem. So I post it again here, try to make it short and clear. Sorry for occupying the space of your mailbox twice. " Actually I need a chamber like a culture incubator (regular one for E.coli growth), but this chamber must have both cooling and heating function (b.c. I need low temprature like 4C), and running quietly (vibration seems not good for my crystal). The procedue is like: I put my apparatus into the chamber, set the temperature inside to 4C for 2 hr, and then 25C for 2 hr, and back to 4C for 2hr, and again 25C for 2hr, and so on... So I also need it can be programmed to make a temperature cycling." Thanks for Zhijie again. She/he gave me a lot of help and finally find me this one http://www.scientificindustries.com/envirogenie.html I think except it has not programmed temperature cycling control, every other feature of this machine is perfect, especially it removes compressor (it uses *Peltier controlled Refrigeration and Heating*). Does anyone know better choice for me? Jun Ma ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Zhijie Li <[email protected]> Date: 2012/6/13 Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Where to get a thermo-cycling controlled chamber To: Jun Ma <[email protected]> Hi Jun, You had better send this last reply of yours to the CCP4BB. I think this one describes your requirement more clearly than the original post. BTW, I think there must be lots of refrigerated incubators with computer interface around, which you can program the thermo cycles. I found the following one with a serial port(RS232) for controlling online: http://www.scientificindustries.com/envirogenie.html But when there is a built-in compressor, I doubt how quiet it could be. Another concern is, heat conduction by air is always very slow, unless you have a fan to blow air over your apparatus, which also brings vibrations to your system. Zhijie *From:* Jun Ma <[email protected]> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:59 PM *To:* Zhijie Li <[email protected]> *Subject:* Re: [ccp4bb] Where to get a thermo-cycling controlled chamber Hi Zhijie, Thank you again for quick response. I don't need to change temprature too quickly. Actually a chamber like a culture incubator (for E.coli growth) is good for me, but this chamber must have cooling function (b.c. I need low temprature like 4C), and running quietly (vibration seems not good for my crystal). The procedue is like: I put my apparatus into the chamber, set the temperature inside to 4C for 2 hr, and then 25C for 1 hr, and back to 4C for 2hr, and again 25C for 1hr, and so on... I don't know if I describe what I want clearly this time. I have spent a lot time for looking for this chamber. I think there must be someone knowing something, out of so many experienced experts on CCP4. Thank you again for taking your time and thoughts to help me. Jun 2012/6/13 Zhijie Li <[email protected]> > Hi Jun, > > How fast do you need the temperature to be changed? One easy way to get > very fast temperature change is to prepare water at different temperatures, > and circulate the water around your chamber, which of course need to be > watertight. If you can find valves that can take computer instructions then > you can control the sequence of the water of different temperatures going > around your chamber. If you have a constant temperature hot water supply > and ice water supply and are not t.o concerned about wasting water, then > two proportional valves can do what you want: mix the ice water with the > hot water at different ratios then you can get to anywhere in the 0-50C > range. > > I doubt there would be solid block based devices that would allow you to > quickly and evenly change your chamber's temperature, as this would need > even and efficient heating and cooling of your chamber on all 6 faces, > which is difficult to do with solid surfaces. > > Zhijie > > > > *From:* Jun Ma <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:36 PM > *To:* Zhijie Li <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [ccp4bb] Where to get a thermo-cycling controlled chamber > > Hi Zhijie, > > Thank you for your detailed reply. I'm sorry i didn't describe as clearly > as possible. I'm trying to make 2D-crystal, and using a special apparatus, > not so big, but cannot fit a regular thermocycler designing for > 96-wells plate/PCR. So I need a kind of chamber, in which I can put my > apparatus. Do you have any idea about this? > > Jun > > 2012/6/13 Zhijie Li <[email protected]> > >> Hi Jun， >> >> In this following article an metallic adapter was used to mount a 192 >> well sitting drop plate on a conventional thermocycler. >> http://journals.iucr.org/d/issues/2006/05/00/av5047/av5047bdy.html. >> However I guess there would be significant evaporation and condensation >> if you use vapor diffusion setup and cycle the temperatures. >> >> On the other hand, if you do microbatch under oil, then you should be >> able to easily setup the experiment on a 96-tube PCR plate and mount it on >> a PCR machine. I guess the temperature can be more precisely controlled >> this way with no special equipment needed. Especially, the evaporation and >> condensation during thermo cycles would probably be less problematic. >> >> Zhijie >> >> >> *From:* Jun Ma <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:15 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* [ccp4bb] Where to get a thermo-cycling controlled chamber >> >> Hi everybody, >> >> My experiment need me to try a thermo-cycling method for protein >> crystallization. So I need a kind of temperature chamber, which can changes >> temperature quickly, precisely and steadily. Furthermore, it should be >> relatively quiet when running, because I'm afraid vibration will affect the >> crystallization of my protein. I just need a small one, which can control >> temperature from 0 C to 50 C. >> >> I'm looking for this for some time, and still don't know where to get it. >> If anyone can provide information about where to purchase, or how to solve >> the thermo-cycling control if there's no commercial merchandise, I will >> appreciate that very much. >> >> Any other suggestions are welcome. >> Jun Ma >> >> 2012-06-12 >> > >
