On Jun 20, 2013, at 12:20 PM, Dale Tronrud <[email protected]> wrote:

>   If you are refining against F's you have to find some way to avoid
> calculating the square root of a negative number.  That is why people
> have historically rejected negative I's and why Truncate and cTruncate
> were invented.
> 
>   When refining against I, the calculation of (Iobs - Icalc)^2 couldn't
> care less if Iobs happens to be negative.

But we know that Is can't be negative.  Using (Iobs - Icalc)^2 does not 
incorporate that bit of physics, and it implicitly assumes a Gaussian 
distribution for the Is, which is impossible for a variable that is positive 
semi-definite.  Refining against (Iobs - Icalc)^2 is mathematically equivalent 
to shifting every I by the most negative I and refining against that, a crude 
baseline correction that I doubt most people would consider valid.  
Transforming the data to Fs at least makes the Gaussian assumption plausible, 
and I always assumed that was one main reason for working with Fs (since all 
the refinement programs assume Gaussians).  

>   As for why people still refine against F...  When I was distributing
> a refinement package it could refine against I but no one wanted to do
> that.  The "R values" ended up higher, but they were looking at R
> values calculated from F's.  Of course the F based R values are lower
> when you refine against F's, that means nothing.

R-values also implicitly assume a Gaussian, right?

> 
>   If we could get the PDB to report both the F and I based R values
> for all models maybe we could get a start toward moving to intensity
> refinement.
> 
> Dale Tronrud
> 
> On 06/20/2013 09:06 AM, Douglas Theobald wrote:
>> Just trying to understand the basic issues here.  How could refining 
>> directly against intensities solve the fundamental problem of negative 
>> intensity values?
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 20, 2013, at 11:34 AM, Bernhard Rupp <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>>> As a maybe better alternative, we should (once again) consider to refine 
>>>> against intensities (and I guess George Sheldrick would agree here).
>>> 
>>> I have a simple question - what exactly, short of some sort of historic 
>>> inertia (or memory lapse), is the reason NOT to refine against intensities?
>>> 
>>> Best, BR

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