Dear all, thank you for the info. I have also noticed, that NVIDIA is not supporting 3D Vision activelly. You cannot even buy the glasses in our local distribution. I have just learn, that Plastation VR headset should be working without much trouble both Windows and Linux and has reasonable price. I will let you know, once I know the results. Best regards, Jan
On 2/1/19 3:19 PM, Pedro Matias wrote: > Hi all, > > Thanks Philippe, for the comprehensive discussion of the problem. > > I may also add that about 2 years ago I inquired our local DELL reseller > about laptops with Quadro cards (for running WinCoot in 3D stereo) > because they had listed in the US site models that supposedly would > work. Sadly, those models had been discontinued and replaced by a new > series that no longer had a 120Hz display. I was unable to test whether > stereo would still work with an external monitor but that would defeat > the mobility purpose anyway. > > Also, it seems that with the new VR trend, NVIDIA is letting 3D vision > fade away - am I wrong? > > Best, > > Pedro > > Às 13:20 de 01/02/2019, Philippe BENAS escreveu: >> Hi Georg, >> >> My first answer would be it's a bad idea for several reasons: >> >> 1. PRICE/PERF >> Laptops are always much more expensive than worstations for a given >> performance and often you cannot reach the performances of a desktop >> or tower computer with a laptop. >> >> 2. QUADRO + 120 Hz DISPLAY >> Then if you want to use hardware stereo you will not only need a >> _Quadro GPU_ as Pedro mentioned but also a screen with a _vertical >> frequency of 120 Hz_ or higher and an external IR emitter. If you >> install Win7 it might work. If you install Win10 it won't with the >> current version of Coot (PyMol, Discovery Studio will). If you want to >> run linux as OS then you will need in addition a _stereo VESA 3-pin >> connector_ (between the graphic and the IR emitter) which I think >> doesn't exists for laptop graphic cards. >> >> Using an external monitor won't make it either unless your laptop has >> a DVI-D output (very few I think were manufactured and are no longer) >> or a Display Port 1.3 or 1.4 and your monitor also has a DVI-D or a DP >> 1.3 or 1.4 input. >> Using a Thunderbolt 3 (TB3) output will not help either because I >> don't think you will any monitor with a Thunderbolt input running at a >> vertical frequency of 120 Hz. Then even 3D Club >> (http://www.club-3d.com) does not make a Thunderbolt to DVI-D active >> adaptor with a refresh rate higher than 60 Hz, i.e. you cannot use an >> external monitor with a DVI-D input. >> >> So it not easy to have Quadro based hardware stereo on a laptop (I >> tried at some point to use the OpenGL drivers for GeForce that were >> available for developers and supposed to allow OpenGL 3D but without >> success). >> You might find old Asus or Acer laptops (intel core of the 2nd or 3rd >> generation) with screens running at 120 Hz and built-in IR emitter but >> they are using GeForce graphic cards. At this point you might try to >> replace the GeForce by a mobile Quadro (if it can fit into the PCIe slot). >> >> Alternatively to double requirement of a Quadro and a 120 Hz monitor, >> you could make use of the WiFi mini PCIe port of any laptop and use an >> external Quadro GPU that you will have to supply with electrical power >> (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CwuDbXsQck (FR) or >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq0ZE8wmv-Q (EN) ) or use some >> commercial eGPU solution (often using the TB3 port; e.g. >> https://www.pcworld.com/article/2984716/laptop-computers/how-to-transform-your-laptop-into-a-gaming-powerhouse-with-an-external-graphics-card.html >> ) but with their restrictions (laptop compatibility list and I'm not >> sure it will work under linux). >> I haven't tested these solutions as the benefit in portability of a >> laptop ins then lost. >> >> And overall I think you're better of buying any cheap second hand >> workstation, Quadro graphic card and a 27" monitor @ 120 Hz. >> >> Best regards, >> Philippe >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Philippe BENAS, Ph.D. >> >> ARN UPR 9002 CNRS >> IBMC Strasbourg >> 15, rue René Descartes >> F-67084 STRASBOURG cedex >> +33.3.8841.7109 >> E-mails: [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>, [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> URLs: http://www-ibmc.u-strasbg.fr/ , >> http://www-ibmc.u-strasbg.fr/spip-arn/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> Le vendredi 1 février 2019 à 10:11:48 UTC+1, Pedro Matias >> <[email protected]> a écrit : >> >> >> Hi, >> >> You need a laptop with a NVIDIA Quadro card that supports quadbuffered >> 3D stereo under Linux. I found this page >> >> https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/design-visualization/quadro-for-mobile-workstations/ >> >> that may help find a laptop with the needed specs. >> >> For example, you can find info about a DELL laptop with a QUADRO P4200 at >> >> https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebooks/precision-7730-mobile-workstation/spd/precision-17-7730-laptop?view=configurations >> >> but you need to make sure the display supports 120/144 Hz refresh rate. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Pedro >> >> Às 22:52 de 31/01/2019, Georg Mlynek escreveu: >>> >>> Dear all, I am considering to buy a new laptop and would like to >>> install the latest ubuntu version and have 3D glasses. Following the >>> discussions in the lasts years, this issue seems to be not trivial. >>> Which setup of laptop and 3D glasses will work plug and play? >>> >>> And what about VR. When is coot and pymol VR ready? >>> >>> Best regards, Georg. >>> >>> >>> On 31.01.19 10:54, Philippe BENAS wrote: >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> I had an HP Z620 that was dual boot Kubuntu 14.03 and Win 10. Coot >>>> was working in stereo mode without any problem for a year or so. But >>>> after one of their major updates Coot crashed as soon as the >>>> built-in IR emitter of my Asus VG278H turned on, as described Pedro >>>> and Jan. >>>> >>>> My personal guess is that the new Win 10 kernels no longer accept >>>> some direct exchanges from programs to hardware parts, probably for >>>> safety issues. So I came to the same conclusion as Pedro: stick to >>>> Win 7 if you want to run Coot under Windows or use a linux >>>> distribution or dual boot workstation. >>>> >>>> Nevertheless PyMol was just working fine in stereo mode under Win >>>> 10. At least until last september when I sold my Z620 for a Z820 >>>> (Kubuntu 18.04/Win7). May be PyMol developers at Schrödinger could >>>> give their tips and tricks to Bernard Lohkamp to whom I send my >>>> warmest aknowledgments for porting Coot under Windows. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Philippe >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Philippe BENAS, Ph.D. >>>> >>>> ARN UPR 9002 CNRS >>>> IBMC Strasbourg >>>> 15, rue René Descartes >>>> F-67084 STRASBOURG cedex >>>> +33.3.8841.7109 >>>> E-mails: [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>, [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> URLs: http://www-ibmc.u-strasbg.fr/ , >>>> http://www-ibmc.u-strasbg.fr/spip-arn/ >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Le jeudi 31 janvier 2019 à 10:18:42 UTC+1, Pedro Matias >>>> <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> a écrit : >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> The problem with COOT stereo and Windows 10 is that the COOT binary >>>> is not compatible with the newer OpenGL drivers or somesuch in >>>> Windows 10. So, COOT runs fine in Windows 10 but crashes if you >>>> enter hardware stereo mode. However, PyMOL works fine in stereo in >>>> Windows 10. >>>> >>>> According to Bernhard Lohkamp, the Windows COOT developer, this >>>> problem has not yet been fixed because he has no access to a Windows >>>> 10 PC. >>>> >>>> Therefore, stick to Windows 7 if you want to run COOT stereo on a >>>> cheap Quadro card. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Pedro >>>> >>>> Às 04:38 de 31/01/2019, Jim Fairman escreveu: >>>>> I had a Windows 7 machine that would run Quad buffered stereo back >>>>> around 2009, haven't had a chance to try with Windows 10. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 02:03 Jan Stransky >>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> I started looking into the never ending story of stereo in >>>>> crystallography... As with our standardized linux setup we >>>>> probably are not willing to move to X.org-world, if was >>>>> wondering, if anybody was succesful to make stereo working in >>>>> Windows 10. I did read some NVIDIA forum, and it seems that 3d >>>>> vision is not very supported by NVIDIA, even for gamers... Was >>>>> anybody able to mke it work with Geforce cards, to save few bucks? >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Jan >>>>> >>>>> Dne 03.01.2018 v 10:42 Wim Burmeister napsal(a): >>>>>> I answer a bit late, but I repost a message on 3D graphics >>>>>> from Mai 2017 : >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> we just wanted to share our experience in finding a >>>>>> configuration which allows to use 3D graphics under linux >>>>>> using Nvidia GeForce 3D glasses. >>>>>> >>>>>> We had quite a hard time to find a configurations which works >>>>>> correctly. >>>>>> >>>>>> We finally used Debian linux with a xfce desktop. Other recent >>>>>> desktops use a tiling which is not compatible with 3D graphics. >>>>>> >>>>>> The hardware consists of >>>>>> >>>>>> * a DELL Precision T5810 desktop computer with an Nvidia >>>>>> Quadro M4000 (8 Gbyte memory, 4 DP) graphics card >>>>>> * Nvidia GeForce 3D Vision 2 (NVIDIA GEF 3D VISION 2 GLASSES >>>>>> KIT) active stereo glasses >>>>>> * a stereo connector PNY Quadro 4000 3D for the >>>>>> synchronization of graphics card and glasses >>>>>> * an ASUS 24" LED 3D - VG248QE display >>>>>> * a DisplayPort-DisplayPort cable >>>>>> >>>>>> The Nvidia linux drivers from version 367.57 can handle the >>>>>> current version of the Nvidia glasses. >>>>>> >>>>>> For an obscure reason a direct DP-DP connection between >>>>>> graphics card and display is absolutely required in order to >>>>>> obtain fully working stereo. If a DP-DVI dual link adapter is >>>>>> used, the stereo does not work on the top and the bottom part >>>>>> of the screen. This is true for a native DELL active adaptor >>>>>> or generic models. The exact reason remains unresolved, but >>>>>> the solution is to use a direct DP-DP connection. This limits >>>>>> the available choice of displays which require 120 Hz for >>>>>> 1080*1980 screen resolution and a DP input. We have been >>>>>> choosing a “Nvidia 3D ready” model. >>>>>> >>>>>> There has been a considerate about of exchange about this >>>>>> problem on >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/992892/linux/partially-working-stereoscopic-effect-with-3d-vision-under-debian-linux/ >>>>>> >>>>>> The setup comes with a price tag of about 1600 € free of taxes. >>>>>> >>>>>> coot, pymol and chimera work straight without problems in >>>>>> hardware stereo mode. The experience is absolutely great. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best >>>>>> >>>>>> Wim >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Wim Burmeister >>>>>> Professeur >>>>>> Institut de Biologie Structurale (IBS) CIBB >>>>>> 71 avenue des Martyrs >>>>>> >>>>>> CS 20192 >>>>>> 38044 Grenoble Cedex 9, FRANCE >>>>>> E-mail: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> Tel: +33 (0) 457 42 87 41 Fax: +33 (0) 476 20 94 00 >>>>>> website >>>>>> >>>>>> <http://www.ibs.fr/research/research-groups/viral-replication-machines-group-m-jamin/team-03/article/poxvirus-replication-machinery-presentation/> >>>>>> >>>>>> // >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >>>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >>>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Industry and Medicine Applied Crystallography >>>> Macromolecular Crystallography Unit >>>> ___________________________________ >>>> Phones : (351-21) 446-9100 Ext. 1669 >>>> (351-21) 446-9669 (direct) >>>> Fax : (351-21) 441-1277 or 443-3644 >>>> >>>> email : [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>>> http://www.itqb.unl.pt/research/biological-chemistry/industry-and-medicine-applied-crystallography >>>> http://www.itqb.unl.pt/labs/macromolecular-crystallography-unit >>>> >>>> Mailing address : >>>> Instituto de Tecnologia Quimica e Biologica António Xavier >>>> Universidade Nova de Lisboa >>>> Av. da República >>>> 2780-157 Oeiras >>>> PORTUGAL >>>> >>>> ITQB NOVA, a great choice for your PhD >>>> https://youtu.be/de6j-aaTWNQ >>>> >>>> Master Programme in Biochemistry for Health >>>> https://youtu.be/UKstDCFjYI8 >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 >>> >> -- >> >> Industry and Medicine Applied Crystallography >> Macromolecular Crystallography Unit >> ___________________________________ >> Phones : (351-21) 446-9100 Ext. 1669 >> (351-21) 446-9669 (direct) >> Fax : (351-21) 441-1277 or 443-3644 >> >> email : [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> http://www.itqb.unl.pt/research/biological-chemistry/industry-and-medicine-applied-crystallography >> http://www.itqb.unl.pt/labs/macromolecular-crystallography-unit >> >> Mailing address : >> Instituto de Tecnologia Quimica e Biologica António Xavier >> Universidade Nova de Lisboa >> Av. da República >> 2780-157 Oeiras >> PORTUGAL >> >> ITQB NOVA, a great choice for your PhD >> https://youtu.be/de6j-aaTWNQ >> >> Master Programme in Biochemistry for Health >> https://youtu.be/UKstDCFjYI8 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 >> > -- > > Industry and Medicine Applied Crystallography > Macromolecular Crystallography Unit > ___________________________________ > Phones : (351-21) 446-9100 Ext. 1669 > (351-21) 446-9669 (direct) > Fax : (351-21) 441-1277 or 443-3644 > > email : [email protected] > > http://www.itqb.unl.pt/research/biological-chemistry/industry-and-medicine-applied-crystallography > http://www.itqb.unl.pt/labs/macromolecular-crystallography-unit > > Mailing address : > Instituto de Tecnologia Quimica e Biologica António Xavier > Universidade Nova de Lisboa > Av. da República > 2780-157 Oeiras > PORTUGAL > > ITQB NOVA, a great choice for your PhD > https://youtu.be/de6j-aaTWNQ > > Master Programme in Biochemistry for Health > https://youtu.be/UKstDCFjYI8 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1
