Hi Paul, Fair point, apologies if anyone was offended by my comments! I simply thought that such matters are meaningful for this forum. I am just as guilty as everyone, and it is important to put our work into the broader perspective from time to time.
Best wishes, Radu > Hi Radu and all > > Could i humbly suggest some careful reflection before this ends up polarising > the amazing structural biology community. Since the year dot everyone has been > contributing to integrated approaches and I fear that the tone of this debate > will create much negativity around the community which seems pointless at > least to me.. > > Maybe a commentary published somewhere would be a better way to debate what > are important issues and not through the CCP4 forum? > > best wishes > > Paul > > > > >> On 17 Jul 2019, at 10:21, [email protected] wrote: >> >> Hi Susan, >> >> We are not naive if we care about using the limited resources of this >> planet >> responsibly. This has nothing to do with whoever's favourite method. I have >> nothing against crystallography, it is a beautiful art and has been a >> success >> historically. I have solved plenty of crystal structures myself and will >> probably have to keep doing it for a little while. But it is naive to >> ignore >> that the time to move on has arrived, and that we have to use resources to >> develop better technologies which address the real biological questions >> instead of keeping dinosaurs on life support. >> >> How many of the structures solved on synchrotrons worldwide and of the >> zillions in the PDB are of any use or biological relevance (original >> question)? There is an enormous amount of waste, including the nasty >> chemicals >> use to grow crystals and to phase pointless structures, let's be honest. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Radu >> >> >> >>> I think we are naive if we care about the method used to obtain the >>> structure >>> - what matters is getting at the structure. What is great is that the >>> variety >>> of ways we can do this has increased meaning more samples become tractable >>> for >>> high resolution structure determination. I donât see the point of >>> ridiculous >>> my method is better than your method arguments - for some samples all >>> methods >>> are equivalent, for some there is only one method that will yield answers - >>> we >>> just need to train students and develop methods that allow the broadest >>> access. Everything else is bias-driven posturing. Letâs just solve some >>> structures and learn something about biology. >>> >>> >>> Susan >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 17 Jul 2019, at 08:43, [email protected] <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Both, >>>> >>>> I am not questioning the PDB stats, the issue was whether (crystal) >>>> structures >>>> are sufficiently relevant to address biological questions and justify the >>>> resources. Fragment screening is one example where investment in protein >>>> crystallography can still be justified (for now). But it doesn't really >>>> ask >>>> or >>>> answer biological questions... for these, whether we like it or not, >>>> macromolecular crystallography (or NMR, even in cell) cannot be the >>>> future. >>>> In >>>> my opinion :-) >>>> >>>> Best wishes, >>>> >>>> Radu >>>> >>>> >>>>> Stating the crystallography is dead might be a bit premature, it is >>>>> still >>>>> king >>>>> for depositions. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In 2017 we had a large number of fragment screening experiments >>>>> deposited. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: CCP4 bulletin board <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Nukri >>>>> Sanishvili >>>>> Sent: 15 July 2019 23:09 >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] challenges in structural biology >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I know it is going to hijack the original topic but I could not help... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> âThe reports of death of (macromolecular) crystallography are greatly >>>>> exaggerated. >>>>> >>>>> If we believed the prognosticators, it has been dead since the 80s when >>>>> some >>>>> folks made the claim that the only relevant structures were those solved >>>>> by >>>>> NMR. >>>>> >>>>> I think we've done quite well since then... >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Nukri >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 3:45 PM <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Tassos, Tim, >>>>> >>>>> I wonder why would you or anyone on this list worry whether biological >>>>> questions that can be asked and answered with structures are relevant to >>>>> justify the resources? I think there is abundant evidence that this is >>>>> the >>>>> case. Unless your point is that crystallography is now dead for all >>>>> practical >>>>> purposes... then yes, I fully agree :-) It would however be wrong to >>>>> erase >>>>> its >>>>> historical contribution to understanding biology. >>>>> >>>>> Best wishes, >>>>> >>>>> Radu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I would wonder more if the biological questions you can *ask* with a >>>>>> (crystal) >>>>>> structure are sufficiently relevant to justify the resources. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 15 Jul 2019, at 22:08, Tim Grüne <[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear James, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 10) are the biological questions that you can answer with a (crystal) >>>>>>> structure sufficiently relevant to justify the resources? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Tim >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 15.07.2019 21:44, schrieb Holton, James M: >>>>>>>> Hello folks, >>>>>>>> I have the distinct honor of chairing the next Gordon Research >>>>>>>> Conference on Diffraction Methods in Structural Biology (July 26-31 >>>>>>>> 2020). This meeting will focus on the biggest challenges currently >>>>>>>> faced by structural biologists, and I mean actual real-world >>>>>>>> challenges. As much as possible, these challenges will take the form >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> friendly competitions with defined parameters, data, a scoring >>>>>>>> system, >>>>>>>> and "winners", to be established along with other unpublished results >>>>>>>> only at the meeting, as is tradition at GRCs. >>>>>>>> But what are the principle challenges in biological structure >>>>>>>> determination today? I of course have my own ideas, but I feel like >>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>> forgetting something. Obvious choices are: >>>>>>>> 1) getting crystals to diffract better >>>>>>>> 2) building models into low-resolution maps (after failing at #1) >>>>>>>> 3) telling if a ligand is really there or not >>>>>>>> 4) the phase problem (dealing with weak signal, twinning and >>>>>>>> pseudotranslation) >>>>>>>> 5) what does "resolution" really mean? >>>>>>>> 6) why are macromolecular R factors so much higher than >>>>>>>> small-molecule >>>>>>>> ones? >>>>>>>> 7) what is the best way to process serial crystallography data? >>>>>>>> 8) how should one deal with non-isomorphism in multi-crystal methods? >>>>>>>> 9) what is the "structure" of something that won't sit still? >>>>>>>> What am I missing? Is industry facing different problems than >>>>>>>> academics? Are there specific challenges facing electron-based >>>>>>>> techniques? If so, could the combined strength of all the world's >>>>>>>> methods developers solve them? I'm interested in hearing the voice >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> this community. On or off-list is fine. >>>>>>>> -James Holton >>>>>>>> MAD Scientist >>>>>>>> ######################################################################## >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >>>>>>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB >>>>>>>> <https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1> &A=1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Tim Gruene >>>>>>> Head of the Centre for X-ray Structure Analysis >>>>>>> Faculty of Chemistry >>>>>>> University of Vienna >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Phone: +43-1-4277-70202 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> GPG Key ID = A46BEE1A >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ######################################################################## >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >>>>>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB >>>>>>> <https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1> &A=1 >>>>>> >>>>>> ######################################################################## >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >>>>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB >>>>>> <https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1> &A=1 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Radu Aricescu >>>>> MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology >>>>> Francis Crick Avenue >>>>> Cambridge Biomedical Campus >>>>> Cambridge CB2 0QH, U.K. >>>>> tel: +44-(0)1223-267049 >>>>> fax: +44-(0)1223-268305 >>>>> www: http://www2.mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk/group-leaders/a-to-g/radu-aricescu >>>>> >>>>> ######################################################################## >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >>>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB >>>>> <https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1> &A=1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _____ >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >>>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB >>>>> <https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1> &A=1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ######################################################################## >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >>>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Radu Aricescu >>>> MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology >>>> Francis Crick Avenue >>>> Cambridge Biomedical Campus >>>> Cambridge CB2 0QH, U.K. >>>> tel: +44-(0)1223-267049 >>>> fax: +44-(0)1223-268305 >>>> www: http://www2.mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk/group-leaders/a-to-g/radu-aricescu >>>> >>>> ######################################################################## >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 >>> >>> ######################################################################## >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 >>> >> >> >> -- >> Radu Aricescu >> MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology >> Francis Crick Avenue >> Cambridge Biomedical Campus >> Cambridge CB2 0QH, U.K. >> tel: +44-(0)1223-267049 >> fax: +44-(0)1223-268305 >> www: http://www2.mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk/group-leaders/a-to-g/radu-aricescu >> >> ######################################################################## >> >> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > > -- Radu Aricescu MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology Francis Crick Avenue Cambridge Biomedical Campus Cambridge CB2 0QH, U.K. tel: +44-(0)1223-267049 fax: +44-(0)1223-268305 www: http://www2.mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk/group-leaders/a-to-g/radu-aricescu ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1
