> > >> And of course, that requires GNU m4 1.4+ "because we need
> >
> > just don't use that macro, if I understand you right
> In this case, I'm talking about regenerating configure.
> If I remember right, auto* drags in perl and GNU m4 1.4+ as dependencies.
That's true. It is a maintainers problem. But perhaps there will not be a
necessity to regenerate. It's a maintainer's task to create portable configure.
> Another thing to bear in mind: any old software will need CDE's Imake
files installed to build. So getting rid of imake is potentially
dangerous for compatability.
Backward compatibility is important, I agree.
> Now, regarding the patch:
> Overall, it checks for too much.
> -ln -s is supported on any vaguely POSIX-like OS. It's only an issue if you
> want CDE on Windows, without cygwin.
> -a working libXm implies libXt, libMrm, libUil, libX11, libXaw, and a few
> others.
> -Autoconf will mislead people because true Motif is required, and Lesstif
> will satisfy autoconf.
>
> Basically, I'd say it makes sense to check for these libs:
> -lX11
> -lXaw
> -lXm #check if it has printing, too
> -lXp #just disable the printing stuff, unless libXm has printing.
> -lXdmcp # HasXdmAuth
> -lcrypt
> -lfl
> -last # I thought we use an internal version?
> -lpam
> -ltcl
> -lPEX5/-lphigs: No current X11 has these, but probably some older systems do.
> Are they here by accretion?
There is much from autoscan and I still didn't find time to review all that
checks and delete many unnecessary. There is much to be reviewed and optimized.
According to Imake configs libXm have different dependencies on different
systems. It is reflected in xm_reqs var that is exported to Makefiles.
Different *_reqs are set to different values depending on host type.
All lib checks will be moved to the end and called depending on host type and
selected configure options. Currently it's too raw. I consider it's sensible to
create all Makefile.am's as a first step.
Concerning Lesstif. Current Motif lib revision is set to *so.4.*. LessTif lib
name is libXm.so.2*, it reflects motif version I guess. On slackware at least.
But we can't rely on this. It can be double checked with `strings | grep
"Motif.*Version"` and/or checking for functions not implemented in lesstif.
As I understand right current CDE doesn't work on Motif 1.X. Correct me if I'm
wrong.
> It seems to me that one could easily write a script that checks for a
few tools and libraries,then writes a new site.def (I think that's the
file...); in fact, I wrote a > script that gets all options for awk, yacc, lex,
CXX, CC, and make while checking for install, sed, and rpcgen in
30 lines of POSIX shell.
>
> This would allow one to go
> /configure && make World
> while not deprecating Imake or getting the disadvantages of autoconf.
It looks like reinventing autoconf. I understand your worry about backward
compatibility yet not sure that wrapping Imake inside auto* is elegant. I
believe it's possible to achieve same stability with configure.
Alex
________________________________
From: Isaac Dunham <ibid...@lavabit.com>
To: Oleksiy Ch <och...@rocketmail.com>
Cc: "cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net"
<cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2013 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] porting on Autotools initiative
On Mon, 4 Feb 2013 02:45:24 -0800 (PST)
Oleksiy Ch wrote:
> Taking all the pitfalls of autotools it should be stated that it
> covers all imake capabilities plus adds a bunch of new features. Imake
> is just static. And this is a big advantage/disadvantage. You look
> only at one side - advantage. It's static so it's great for maintainer
> that doesn't like things that change. For this case a minimal portable
> configure.ac can be crafted that reads *.cf and *.rules and you
> get all Imake capabilities plus shell to do tests and all
> autotools capabilities. Let's make preset defines for different
> OSes that do not change if we select that OS in configure option:
> configure --preset-config=OS [openbsd freebsd linux sun ibm hp ..]
> >> -send it an OS name that is not expressed the way GNU wants,
> >> and good luck having anything build. (config.sub and
> >> config.guess, I'm looking at you)
> Add option with strictly defined OS names derived from file names
> config/cf/*.cf.
If you do that, I guess that covers those arguments.
> >> -it claims to test for features, but half the time the tests are along the
> >> lines of
>
> don't use that macro. That's all. Write your own macro, more correct.
<snip>
> >> -In fact, it frequently ends up dragging in more dependencies on GNU tools
> >> (gmake, gm4, bash, and the list goes on)
> don't use that macro
(which does mean rewriting some macros)
> >> And of course, that requires GNU m4 1.4+ "because we need
>
> just don't use that macro, if I understand you right
In this case, I'm talking about regenerating configure.
If I remember right, auto* drags in perl and GNU m4 1.4+ as dependencies.
> >> Autotools works, except when it doesn't.
> Let's make backward compatibility by putting all preset defines in
> configure.ac
>
> All your headache can be resolved by using preset config option.
> Think about user. Does he want to read a manual to find out how to switch off
> that module in compile time that requires some dep that don't want to
> install.
>
These examples are from my experience as a user building software from source.
Fixing auto* when it breaks is worse than reading a manual.
> Why do you pass over all features that autotools give?
>
> Alex
My experience is that I can usually build Motif software from the mid-1990s
with minimal changes to the Imakefiles.
Software from the early 2000s that uses autotools is far harder to get building.
And the point is to build the software, not just to provide a configuration
infrastructure.
Another thing to bear in mind: any old software will need CDE's Imake files
installed to build. So getting rid of imake is potentially dangerous for
compatability.
Now, regarding the patch:
Overall, it checks for too much.
-ln -s is supported on any vaguely POSIX-like OS. It's only an issue if you
want CDE on Windows, without cygwin.
-a working libXm implies libXt, libMrm, libUil, libX11, libXaw, and a few
others.
-Autoconf will mislead people because true Motif is required, and Lesstif will
satisfy autoconf.
Basically, I'd say it makes sense to check for these libs:
-lX11
-lXaw
-lXm #check if it has printing, too
-lXp #just disable the printing stuff, unless libXm has printing.
-lXdmcp # HasXdmAuth
-lcrypt
-lfl
-last # I thought we use an internal version?
-lpam
-ltcl
-lPEX5/-lphigs: No current X11 has these, but probably some older systems do.
Are they here by accretion?
It seems to me that one could easily write a script that checks for a few tools
and libraries,then writes a new site.def (I think that's the file...); in fact,
I wrote a script that gets all options for awk, yacc, lex, CXX, CC, and make
while checking for install, sed, and rpcgen in 30 lines of POSIX shell.
This would allow one to go
/configure && make World
while not deprecating Imake or getting the disadvantages of autoconf.
--
Isaac Dunham
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