I am not a developer, my skills lie in testing and writing documentation.
Peter brought me into the project because I was doing this with OpenCDE.
Projects need people with all kinds of skill sets; coding is nice, but good
docs are also nice, so are people to answer questions on the mailing list
and to man the IRC channel. If someone wants to contribute but can't code
or write docs, we can find other things they can help with. No one gets
turned away.
On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 5:19 PM Jon Trulson <j...@radscan.com> wrote:
> On 07/03/2018 02:55 PM, Chase wrote:
> > I have seen many instances on the mailing list where someone has
> > asked for work to be done on their behalf when they are or aren't
> > (such as I was) capable of doing it themselves and were not publicly
> > hung out to dry, but that's besides the point.
> Oh come on.
>
> I remember Chris asking me to look at ArchLinux because he was *unable*
> to. He's not a developer, I am, and therefore I spent 2 days last
> weekend (on my own time) tracking down the #$% bug, which turned out to
> be a simple 1-line fix in the end.
>
> As a hobby. On my own time. Because I wished to, and because I could
> and he could not.
>
> You *are* able to get an SF account. The only thing stopping you is
> your choice not to do so. That's your decision and your problem, not mine.
>
> > If peter wishes to apologise to me in private, I will gladly accept
> > and return the favor, shake and come back to the project, however it
> > has become distinctly clear to me that everyone in this project,
> > spare Antonis, thinks I'm the bad guy for a simple misguided message
> > and peter is a saint; and in this atmosphere I cannot thrive.
> Peter can do as he wishes. No one thinks you are the "bad" guy. No one
> thinks Peter is a "saint". I doubt most of the people on this list give
> a crap one way or the other. This is the way *you* choose to frame it.
>
> So be it.
>
> I'm done discussing the topic and wasting other peoples time for having
> to read it on a public list. If you want to continue, take it offline.
>
> > I do this work as a hobby, and when I get the same crap from my
> > hobby as I do my day job, the logical conclusion is to cut my
> > losses and move on.
> And once again, this *your* choice. From my view, logic has nothing to
> do with it.
>
> -jon
>
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your time,
> >
> > -Chase
> >
> > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> >
> > On July 3, 2018 3:13 PM, Jon Trulson <j...@radscan.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On 07/03/2018 04:15 AM, Antonis Tsolomitis wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Developers! Developers! Developers!
> >>
> >> Reminds me of:
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaJREvJW72g
> >>
> >> :)
> >>
> >>> I do not get this. Is CDE a project that can spare a developer? I do
> not
> >>>
> >>> think so.
> >>>
> >>> The project does not seem to be rich in developers. There was an
> >>>
> >>> organized attempt
> >>>
> >>> by Chase to have CDE available in Debian, one of the major
> distributions
> >>>
> >>> out there.
> >>>
> >>> Then there was some messages that were bad (for no serious reason),
> >>>
> >>> the project lost a developer, it also
> >>>
> >>> lost an immediate opportunity to be packaged for Debian, and...
> >>>
> >>> no one talks about this. I do not get it. I think that some people
> >>>
> >>> must apologize for this, not to Chase, but to the project itself.
> >>>
> >>> Instead of this
> >>>
> >>> there is complete silence.
> >>
> >> Well I'm not sure what you are expecting. We are all adults here I
> assume.
> >>
> >> People get into arguments, get angry and either get over it, or don't
> >>
> >> and quit. I think it's the first time in this group, but I've certainly
> >>
> >> seen it in others.
> >>
> >> There's nothing for anyone to do, or to talk about -- it's completely up
> >>
> >> to the individuals involved.
> >>
> >> They should, if they wish, resolve this off-line (ie: not on a public
> >>
> >> mailing list).
> >>
> >> I'd welcome Chase back, but ultimately it was his decision to leave. It
> >>
> >> will also be his decision as to whether or not to return.
> >>
> >> I cannot change that, nor can anyone else. I'm not going to beg. Nor
> >>
> >> am I going to get involved in someone else's disagreements.
> >>
> >> Yet here I go anyway :(
> >>
> >> In fact, while I would have been more diplomatic in my response, I
> >>
> >> agreed with Peter.
> >>
> >> It is unreasonable to expect others to be responsible for ones personal
> >>
> >> choices. I don't understand that kind of thinking at all. As an adult,
> >>
> >> you are responsible for your own choices, not anyone else.
> >>
> >> I can understand not wanting to create an SF account. What I cannot
> >>
> >> understand is expecting others to compensate for that decision (ie: do
> >>
> >> SF work that requires an SF account). And then getting angry when no
> >>
> >> one steps up to do it. That's just a ridiculous position to take IMO.
> >>
> >> My response was to ignore the request. I figured if someone wanted to
> >>
> >> go ahead and do that work for Chase, they would do so. I have my own
> >>
> >> work to do.
> >>
> >> But no one did, and he repeated the request, more forcefully this time.
> >>
> >> That's when people started getting annoyed (at least Peter did) and he
> >>
> >> responded. Very directly, but without calling him names, or impugning
> >>
> >> his character. Peter (and anyone else on this list) has the right to
> >>
> >> express their opinions too.
> >>
> >> If he had not responded, I probably would have along the lines of "Get
> >>
> >> another proton email account and create an SF account. Not my problem!"
> >>
> >> Would you consider me in the wrong for that response too?
> >>
> >>> Well, I do not want to be part of this silence, nor I want to be part
> of
> >>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>> "I do not care". I do care, so I will politely ask Chase to get back to
> >>>
> >>> the project
> >>>
> >>> (that is why I cc to him). The project does not "belong" to anyone
> being
> >>>
> >>> LGPL.
> >>>
> >>> And if someone misbehaves, people that offer to the project should
> >>>
> >>> disregard
> >>>
> >>> their comments as being not important.
> >>>
> >>> no hard feelings,
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >>
> >> Arguments are common with any group of people. Ultimately, it's up to
> >>
> >> those involved to resolve it if they want to. This isn't school where
> >>
> >> the principle can force the individuals involved to "shake hands, and
> >>
> >> move on".
> >>
> >> Developers participating in projects need to grow a thick skin, because
> >>
> >> conflict and disagreement is inevitable.
> >>
> >> -jon
> >>
> >>> I love CDE,
> >>>
> >>> Antonis.
> >>>
> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> >>>
> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> >>>
> >>> cdesktopenv-devel mailing list
> >>>
> >>> cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>>
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Jon Trulson
> >>
> >> "Fire all weapons and open a hailing frequency for my victory yodle."
> >>
> >> - Zapp Brannigan
> >
>
> --
> Jon Trulson
>
> "Fire all weapons and open a hailing frequency for my victory yodle."
>
> - Zapp Brannigan
>
>
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