>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat Mar 22 02:23:42 2003
>> It is mere that _other_ CD/DVD writing programs (specially on
>> Win32) do not meet the needs of the customers so companies are
>> interested to use cdrecord as the base fro a new 'product'.
>But why don't the users of those programs use cdrecord then? I mean=20
>if you say that it meets their needs...
Maybe because not all GUIs for cdrtools work on Win32?
>> A constant cooperation is only present with Heiko (cdda2wav) and
>> James (mkisofs). Both send changes that only need minor ( << 5 %)
>> changes in order to get integrated. I would be happy if other
>> people would be willing to help..
>But apparently they aren't.
So what can I do? Deelopment (not even for cdrtools but also for star)
slows down because I just get too much mail....
>> My answeres are as long as I have time. If people lik you and
>> others are not even willing to help replying to the incoming
>> mail, why do you like to make me believe that there is a
>> potential for coders?
>I'm willing to help replying to incoming mail. Most of the incoming=20
>mail seems to be sent to your email address only though, so I=20
>can't. For example, I replied to the "Linux cdrecord problem"=20
>thread of February 28 as I could answer that question to some=20
>extent.
Well most (or an important part) of the mail seems to be addressed to my
private address.
I could just forward it to e.g. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Problems reported with cdrecord seem often to be low-level problems=20
>which require intimate knowledge of SCSI and cd burning, partly=20
>because cdrecord basically dumps raw SCSI errors to the output in=20
>case of problems, so that a non-SCSI-expert doesn't have a clue as=20
This is not true!
Cdrecord writes the asociated error texts but it seems that most users are
either unable or unwilling to read plain text :-(
>> In addition, there are frequent mail threads where people with
>> missing background knowledge on portability send rants about my
>> make system and portability guidelines. If people do not know how
>> to make things better, they should better be quiet instead of
>> sending destructive critics.
>If people disagree with you, you either shout them down or ignore=20
>them. Or at least that's the way it looks to me. Ofcourse the whole=20
>discussion on smake is a moot point since you're not going to use=20
>autotools and the rest of the world isn't going to use smake. With=20
>both sides dug in like that, arguing is a waste of time.
If people are missing the backround knowledge, I have no other way to deal
with the problems.
The GNU (FSF) tools for portability are not sufficient for cdrtools (and have
not been sufficient for many other programs like e.g. GNU tar).
There are two ways to deal with this problem:
1) follow the FSF guidelines and start creating new problems
2) find a better more general approach that allows to re-use code.
This is what I do. If other people don't understand this, then
there is no way to help them. If I would go the FSF way for
"portability", I would not be as portable as I now am.
>> ???? Tell me about any fork from cdrtools! There is none .....
>> except the joke from Mr. Rosenkranzer.
>Which is what I meant. Mr. Rosenkranzer's fork works for a certain=20
>group of people. They like it, and recommend it to others. And then=20
>you jump in and start your whole rant about how it sucks again. I=20
>understand that you think his fork sucks quality-wise, but why=20
>would you care if other people use it or not? If it makes them=20
>happy, does it matter?
Read the mail in their mailing list and see how many people are happy with
it. The number of unhappy users or people who like to use it but cannot
do so is constantly incresing as the percentage of Pioneer drives in the market
is dropping while new companies learn how to make DVD writers.
I only get angry when unhappy users send bug-reports to me and the report
would not be needed if they would use cdrecord-ProDVD because it is a
dvdrecord typical bug (not related to cdrecord).
>> >With all this and his bitter comments about not getting
>> > anything=3D20 back for cdrecord being open source on this list in
>> > mind, I think=3D20 it's Joerg who doesn't really understand open
>> > source. Or maybe he=3D20
>>
>> It seems that you don't understand it :-( I am on open source
>> since 20 years and I spend a lot of time on my sources. Believe
>> me, would be happy about help!
>Ah, that explains. Once again we're talking about different things.=20
>Confusing it is, with all those ambiguous terms. The Open Source=20
>I'm referring to is the kind described by Eric S. Raymond in his=20
>1997 article "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" [1]. Having the sources=20
>for a program available to the public is one thing, but it doesn't=20
>automatically mean it is developed Bazaar-style. For example, the=20
>BSDs and XFree86 have very closed, Cathedral-style development=20
>processes, even though the source is available. Linux seems to be=20
>far more popular amongst developers than the BSDs.
Did you ever think about Linux?
It neither uses the The Cathedral nor the Bazaar model because there
is a polit office that decides on the kernel (missing skills in conjunction
with force).
>> I just returned from a 8 day job at CeBIT:
>>
>> More than 4 days, I was geting in contact with new CD/DVD
>> manufacturers or doing conversation to stay in contact. Where do
>> you believe come the sample drives from? Where does the NDA free
>> information comes from? It took me a whole year to convince e.g.
>> Ricoh to give away the information for Just Link without forcing
>> me to sign a NDA. Believe me, working on Open Source is a lot
>> more than you seem to understand from it. Show me other open
>> source projects that work better!
>Do you think getting the information would be easier if you had a=20
>community of people sending email to the manufacturers inquiring=20
>about cdrecord support of their products?
No. The companies like to have a single competent person to deal with.
>> If you like to support cdrecord, you would need to be willing to
>> read thousands of pages of documentation and talk to many people;
>> otherwise you would just create a short living program but
>> nothing with the durability and quality of cdrecord.
>But if it gets the job done for some people now it's still useful,=20
>right?
There will be less and less people who may use it in future - there
is no support/development and the number of non Pioneer drives is increasing.
J�rg
EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) J�rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) chars I am J"org Schilling
URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
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