Ernie: We could go round and round about this forever. But let me simply say that my argument follows Ibn Warraq's scholarship in his 1995 book, "Why I Am Not a Muslim."
That is, my views follow directly from perhaps the leading Qur'an scholar of our time. Also from a Harvard scholar of Islam, now deceased, William Cantwell Smith, someone who, while taking your view about interfaith relations vis-a-vis Muslims, nonetheless put into high relief the major sometimes dramatic differences between Biblical faith and Islam. You seem to be arguing deductively based on a large portion of good will and Christian desires, hardly a vice, but also sometimes not conducive to objectivity. That is, the best of intentions is not a substitute for empirical focus. As per usual we may also be talking past each other. you about South Asians who have slim knowledge of the Qur'an and follow a sort of folk Islam, myself about Arabs who either are Wahhabis or who are similar, and who can be Pakistanis or Malays in at least some cases. If there is only one book about Islam you ever read in your life, my recommendation is Warraq's book. It is that important even if some other texts have serious value too. His case is all empirical, no speculation, from the perspective of a Pakistani ex-Muslim scholar who knows Islam inside and out. I don't know how it is possible to do better than that. Billy In a message dated 5/21/2009 4:38:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Billy, On May 21, 2009, at 4:23 PM, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) wrote: My point is: if serious, religious Jews who consider such words a central part of their religious scriptures have found a way to work around extreme intolerance, is not reasonable to hope that serious, religious Muslims might as well? Here again is the assumption , that the Qur'an has much the same status for Muslims as the Bible for Jews or Christians. IF it did, then, yes, a reformation is thinkable. But, alas, this is not the case. Just to clarify, do you mean to say that: a) Muslims reverse the Quran *more* than Orthodox Jews revere the Torah? Or is the real difference that the Jewish tradition encourages criticism and questioning, as opposed to the sort of unthinking obedience demanded by Islam? b) Muslims are more aware of the total teachings of the Quran that fundamentalists Christians are of the New Testament? Or is the real issue that in practice they are loyal to a fundamentalist readubg of the Quran, rather than direct knowledge of what it actually says? That is, as hard as it may be to grasp the concept, the Qur'an is for Muslims what Jesus is for Christians, not something anyone can compromise with in the least. Isn't that strictly speaking only true of the minority Shi'ite rather than the majority Sunni Muslims? I'm no Muslim scholar, but you seem to be glossing over the role of the early caliphs in establishing normative doctrine. Sure, your account may be truer to what the Koran says about itself, and what Muslims *say* they believe -- but that doesn't mean it is necessarily what they believe in practice (as is true of most fundamentalists :-). -- Ernie P. _The Straight Dope: What's the difference between Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims?_ (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2803/whats-the-difference-between-sunni-and-shiite-muslims) The Sunnis meanwhile didn’t look for saintliness in their leaders, but strong political abilities. They shaped laws based on the words of Mohammed and the three “righteous caliphs” (Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman, although some add Ali as the fourth). By the 900s, the Sunni caliphate had split into regional dynasties and local royal families. The Shi’ites take a more fundamentalist approach to their religion, accepting laws only from Mohammed and the Koran, not the caliphate; they look to the imams as the best source of knowledge and tradition. There are essentially no differences in ritual between Shi’ite and Sunni; nonetheless, many Sunni believe Shi’ites are not real Muslims. = _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected] http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com Archives at http ://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/
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