Ernie: Well, yeah, I'm not much of a fan of Marxist materialistic determinism, either, no problem for me to take Hegel's view that "the Idea" begat "the Real." Revelation --in some form-- had 3 dimensional effects. But there are important issues here over and beyond archaeological refutation of a Marxist theory. Also blown out of the water is the insistence in the Qur'an and OT that the original religion of our great-great-great ^3 ancestors was pure monotheism, only later corrupted into polytheism. Archaeology in many other cases before now has said the same thing, especially in Israel with discovery of literally thousands of Goddess figurines predating Yawhist anything, and now here is a temple complex which takes the story back unbelievably far. And before the Urfa complex was built, what existed ? Something like that does not arise out of absolutely nothing. You'd suppose at least some kind of precursors over maybe a millennium or so as a precondition --people need at least minimum education to ideas before they can develop them in major ways. First, how to build small structures in circles before building large circles, etc etc Then there was the organization required for the sheer monumental size of the complex. How was that even possible ? This is to discuss a VERY early version of a state ! Whoa, Nelly. No-one knows about later states for another 1500 years, and those were smaller when they appear, much smaller. WTH ? How did this happen ? In previous known history innovations have, in fact, sometimes come and gone. A screw top jar was discovered in a Mayan site in Yucatan, one only, then no more. Writing was well developed in the Indus Valley then nearly disappeared for 500 years with the fall of the Harappans. The Polynesians knew how navigate between Tonga and Hawaii then lost that knowledge, Etc etc. But this is the loss of an entire proto-civilization. The article speculates, advisedly I think, that enough of that proto-civ survived in bits and pieces to allow partial recoveries in later years, that later allowed for re-invention of early civilization. Speaking of the Maya, or think of Angkor Wat, or the Anasazi, or Ponompei, or Stonehenge , Urfa may have been similar in that some of set of causes over a protracted period led to decline and abandonment. What were those causes ? What I'd most like to know is what did the religion of Urfa consist of beyond the obvious ? Were there prophets, sachems, codes of morality, priestesses, spiritual traditions about the past, and many other things ? You'd think so, but how much of this can be deduced from the material remains ? Are there anthropological survivals in tribal customs in the vicinity ? Guess this doesn't have all that much to do with modern day RC but it has its own value. Ultimate questions, as it were. Billy -------------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 2/24/2010 11:43:02 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
On Feb 24, 2010, at 11:38 AM, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) wrote: Schmidt's thesis is simple and bold: it was the urge to worship that brought mankind together in the very first urban conglomerations. The need to build and maintain this temple, he says, drove the builders to seek stable food sources, like grains and animals that could be domesticated, and then to settle down to guard their new way of life. The temple begat the city. Duh. :-) - E = _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected] http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/
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