Avoid the first two problems and you almost have it solved.
I got a good chuckle about of that one David. Certainly the baptism issue is going to be a hard core issue as is the adherence (or not) to Calvin's 5-points "TULIP" doctrine. I don't think radical centrism will work in a religious context, but it would be nice if it "could" work. True believers in any splinter sect of any religion "know" that their way is the true way. Calvin, Luther, Zwingli, and others tried to reconcile the differences that they had about baptism, predestination, and other core issues. They wanted to be able to present a united front of the reformation. They failed. Not an encouraging sign for the future. Chris _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David R. Block Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 8:10 PM To: Radical Centrist discussion list Subject: Re: [RC] Radical Centrist Baptists The only problem one would have is that most of the divisions (which, contrary to popular jokes among Baptists, are not related to the color of the carpet) have to do with Baptism and which ones to accept from other churches. Most accept none other than a previous Baptist baptism. Those who accept others sometimes find that THEIR baptisms are not accepted by other churches, because a member of that church MIGHT BE one of those who that church did not rebaptize and "should have." The other is the age old Calvinism squabble and how much of it to accept or reject and what definition of Calvinist terms you are talking about. Put another way: in the book "Chosen, but Free" Norman Geisler sets out a definition of the five points which caused Reformed Baptist John White to respond with "The Potter's Freedom" in which he takes down Geisler's points and substitutes an almost Hyper-Calvinist version (IMAO). White is closer to the historical trail, but the definitions laid out by Geisler would eliminate most of the noise from the detractors of Calvinism. Bottom line: White thinks that he is right and he isn't going to give an inch. [I have dealt with White on other forums, and it was not a pleasant experience.] There is also everybody trying to push their "True Believer" street credibility almost always at the expense of someone else. Avoid the first two problems and you almost have it solved. David If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.--Mark Twain On 6/6/2010 6:31 PM, [email protected] wrote: Chris : Now there is an interesting suggestion. Radical Centrist Baptists --what would that look like ? Sounds like a good idea, but I'm having trouble imagining how this might come about , who would lead it, and what passages in the Bible might support it. Maybe you have an idea or two on the subject. Billy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 6/6/2010 2:55:42 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Interesting. It sounds like the Baptists could use a radical centrist movement of their own. I have been in the middle of a couple of doctrinal splits recently with the ELCA (Lutheran), and the PCUSA vs. EPC (Presbyterian). In both cases, the issue was the adoption of societal norms vs. a biblical base. Chris _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David R. Block Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 3:43 PM To: Radical Centrist discussion list Subject: [RC] *SPAM* Re: New Book Baptists tend to splinter over issues of every size. There's the Primitive Baptists, 5 point Calvinists, generally no instrumental music (not always), they wash your feet at the door because Jesus washed the disciples feet at the Last Supper. They basically believe that Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper and the Foot Washing then. Most others don't see things that way. Reformed Baptists, Reformed meaning 5 point Calvinists, but no other practices of the Primitive Baptists are picked up. General Baptists, Non-Calvinist, some almost anti-Calvinist. Southern Baptists have both Calvinists and non-Calvinists so one has to interview the pastor fairly closely to make sure you're getting what you want, but historically, more non-Calvinist. Then there are all kinds of independent Baptist churches, particularly down south where the SBC was just too liberal or conservative on [whatever topic goes here], so that church left the SBC. Some of these do join to form associations, but many are just independent. They basically split over various rules of doctrine, but instead of tolerating the difference, one of them thinks that theirs is THE WAY and splits off from the other. David If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.--Mark Twain On 6/6/2010 12:41 AM, [email protected] wrote: Its kind of an odd thing, but just thinking about Baptists, the tendency for splintering is similar to the tendency on the Left for splintering. How many kinds of Baptists are there ? I'm not sure but at least 10 of size, with the grand total in the hundreds. On the Left the parallelism is hard not to notice. Why is this so ? I donno. Maybe you have a theory or two. Billy ============================================================== In a message dated 6/5/2010 9:02:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: And then there are the differences internal to the religions. How many flavors of Christianity are there? Too many. David If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.--Mark Twain On 6/5/2010 10:06 PM, [email protected] wrote: God Is Not One The Eight Rival Religions That Run the World--and Why Their Differences Matter By <http://www.harpercollins.com/authors/29989/Stephen_Prothero/index.aspx> Stephen Prothero Stephen Prothero, the New York Times bestselling author of Religious Literacy, makes a fresh and provocative argument that, contrary to popular understanding, all religions are not simply different paths to the same end… and why this matters greatly for us. Readers of Huston Smith and Karen Armstrong will find much to ponder in God Is Not One. Book Description At the dawn of the twenty-first century, dizzying scientific and technological advancements, interconnected globalized economies, and even the so-called New Atheists have done nothing to change one thing: our world remains furiously religious. For good and for evil, religion is the single greatest influence in the world. We accept as self-evident that competing economic systems (capitalist or communist) or clashing political parties (Republican or Democratic) propose very different solutions to our planet's problems. So why do we pretend that the world's religious traditions are different paths to the same God? We blur the sharp distinctions between religions at our own peril, argues religion scholar Stephen Prothero, and it is time to replace naïve hopes of interreligious unity with deeper knowledge of religious differences. In Religious Literacy, Prothero demonstrated how little Americans know about their own religious traditions and why the world's religions should be taught in public schools. Now, in God Is Not One, Prothero provides readers with this much-needed content about each of the eight great religions. To claim that all religions are the same is to misunderstand that each attempts to solve a different human problem. For example: –Islam: the problem is pride / the solution is submission –Christianity: the problem is sin / the solution is salvation –Confucianism: the problem is chaos / the solution is social order –Buddhism: the problem is suffering / the solution is awakening –Judaism: the problem is exile / the solution is to return to God Prothero reveals each of these traditions on its own terms to create an indispensable guide for anyone who wants to better understand the big questions human beings have asked for millenniaâ€â€Âand the disparate paths we are taking to answer them today. A bold polemical response to a generation of misguided scholarship, God Is Not One creates a new context for understanding religion in the twenty-first century and disproves the assumptions most of us make about the way the world's religions work. _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected] http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/ _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected] http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/ _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected] http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/ _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected] http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/ _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected] http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/
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