I wouldn't mind a wireshark packet capture of a target 14.8ms and a
target 30ms test.

On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 5:41 PM, Dave Taht <[email protected]> wrote:
> Target 30ms would be interesting. 30+ % packet loss on this test (and
> your link is still operable!)
>
> At your speed range the behavior of the tcp upload is governed by the
> initial window size more than anything else. I doubt the
> mac adjusts that properly so it keeps hammering away at it... my
> concern from looking at your upload graphs was that you were
> actually getting hammered so hard you were actually going through RTO
> (receive timeout) on the uploads.
>
> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Rich Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> On Mar 2, 2014, at 4:41 PM, Dave Taht <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Nice work!
>>>
>>> I have a problem in that I can't remember if target autotuning made it
>>> into that release or not.
>>>
>>> Coulde you do a tc -s qdisc show dev ge00 on your favorite of the
>>> above and paste? I still think
>>> target is still too low on the egress side with the current calculation.
>>
>> Pasted below. The 14.8 msec is the result of the calculation that comes from 
>> the current adapt_target_to_slow_link() function for 830kbps.
>>
>>> Secondly, now that you have a setting you like, trying pie, codel, and
>>> ns2_codel also would be interesting.
>>
>> Need to find another available time slot, but sure.
>>
>>> efq_codel is currently uninteresting. Wasn't clear if you were using
>>> nfq_codel or fq_codel throughout.
>>
>> nfq_codel used for all tests.
>>
>> Rich
>>
>> root@cerowrt:~# tc -s qdisc show dev ge00
>> qdisc htb 1: root refcnt 2 r2q 10 default 12 direct_packets_stat 0
>>  Sent 122649261 bytes 332175 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 579184 requeues 0)
>>  backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
>> qdisc nfq_codel 110: parent 1:11 limit 1001p flows 1024 quantum 300 target 
>> 14.8ms interval 109.8ms
>>  Sent 0 bytes 0 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0)
>>  backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
>>   maxpacket 0 drop_overlimit 0 new_flow_count 0 ecn_mark 0
>>   new_flows_len 0 old_flows_len 0
>> qdisc nfq_codel 120: parent 1:12 limit 1001p flows 1024 quantum 300 target 
>> 14.8ms interval 109.8ms
>>  Sent 122649261 bytes 332175 pkt (dropped 129389, overlimits 0 requeues 0)
>>  backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
>>   maxpacket 0 drop_overlimit 0 new_flow_count 37646 ecn_mark 0
>>   new_flows_len 1 old_flows_len 2
>> qdisc nfq_codel 130: parent 1:13 limit 1001p flows 1024 quantum 300 target 
>> 14.8ms interval 109.8ms
>>  Sent 0 bytes 0 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0)
>>  backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
>>   maxpacket 0 drop_overlimit 0 new_flow_count 0 ecn_mark 0
>>   new_flows_len 0 old_flows_len 0
>> qdisc ingress ffff: parent ffff:fff1 ----------------
>>  Sent 278307120 bytes 467944 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0)
>>  backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Rich Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> I took some time this weekend, and ran careful speed and latency tests on 
>>>> the CeroWrt 3.10.28-16 build. I have a much better understanding of how 
>>>> all this works, both in theory and in practice. Here's an executive 
>>>> summary of the overall test procedure with lots of details below.
>>>>
>>>> Adjusting CeroWrt's configured up- and download rates in the SQM page 
>>>> affects both the actual data transfer rates as well as the latency. If you 
>>>> set the values too low, CeroWrt will enforce that bottleneck, and the 
>>>> transfer rates will be lower than you could attain on your link. If you 
>>>> configure them too high, though, the transfer rates may look better, but 
>>>> the latency can go off the charts. Here's how I arrived at a good balance.
>>>>
>>>> Test Conditions:
>>>>
>>>> - Running tests from my MacBook Pro, 10.9.2.
>>>> - Wi-Fi off; ethernet cable direct to Netgear WNDR3700v2 with CeroWrt 
>>>> 3.10.28-16.
>>>> - DSL service from Fairpoint, nominally "7 Mbps down/768kbps up".
>>>> - DSL Modem sync rate (the actual rate that bits enter/leave my house) is 
>>>> 7616kbps down; 864kbps up. The line is apparently fairly clean, too.
>>>> - Base ping time to the nearest router at ISP (via traceroute) is 29-30 
>>>> msec.
>>>> - To minimize other traffic, I turned off most of the computers at home, 
>>>> and also quit my mail client (which is surprisingly chatty).
>>>>
>>>> The Tests:
>>>>
>>>> I ran two different tests: netperf-wrapper with the RRUL test, and 
>>>> speedtest.net. These give very different views of performance. RRUL really 
>>>> stresses the line using multiple simultaneous up and download streams. 
>>>> Speedtest.net is a consumer test that only tests one direction at a time, 
>>>> and for a short time. We want to look good with both.
>>>>
>>>> For the RRUL tests, I invoked netperf-wrapper like this: netperf-wrapper 
>>>> rrul -p all_scaled -l 60 -H atl.richb-hanover.com -t text-shown-in-chart
>>>> For the Speedtest.net tests, I used their web GUI in the obvious way.
>>>>
>>>> For both tests, I used a script (pingstats.sh, see my next message) to 
>>>> collect the ping times and give min, max, average, median, and 10th and 
>>>> 90th percentile readings.
>>>>
>>>> Test Procedure:
>>>>
>>>> I ran a series of tests starting with the up/down link rates spelled out 
>>>> by Sebastian Moeller's amazingly detailed note last week. See 
>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/cerowrt-devel/2014-February/002375.html
>>>>  Read it carefully. There's a lot of insight available there.
>>>>
>>>> The initial configuration was 6089/737 down/up, with the (nearly default) 
>>>> values for Queue Discipline (nfq_codel, simple.qos, ECN on for ingress; 
>>>> NOECN for egress, auto for both ingress and egress latency targets), and 
>>>> ATM link layer with 44 bytes of overhead.
>>>>
>>>> With those initial configuration values, latency was good but the speeds 
>>>> were disappointing. I then re-ran the tests with CeroWrt configured for 
>>>> higher up/down link speeds to see where things broke.
>>>>
>>>> Things got better and better with increasing link rates until I hit 
>>>> 7600/850 - at that point, latency began to get quite large. (Of course, 
>>>> with SQM disabled, the latency got dreadful.)
>>>>
>>>> There was an anomaly at 7000/800 kbps. The 90th percentile and max numbers 
>>>> jumped up quite a lot, but went *down* for the next test in the sequence 
>>>> when I increased the upload speed to 7000/830. I ran the experiment twice 
>>>> to confirm that behavior.
>>>>
>>>> I should also note that in the course of the experiment, I re-ran many of 
>>>> these tests. Although I did not document each of the runs, the results 
>>>> (speedtest.net rates and the pingstats.sh values) were quite consistent 
>>>> and repeatable.
>>>>
>>>> Conclusion:
>>>>
>>>> I'm running with CeroWrt 3.10.28-16 configured for down/up 7000/830, 
>>>> (nearly) default Queue Discipline and ATM+44 bytes of overhead. With these 
>>>> configurations, latency is well in hand and my network is pretty speedy.
>>>>
>>>> We need to figure out how to explain to people what to expect re: the 
>>>> tradeoff between "faster speeds" that show up in Speedtest.net (with 
>>>> accompanying crappy performance) and slightly slower speeds with a *way* 
>>>> better experience.
>>>>
>>>> The data follows...
>>>>
>>>> Rich
>>>>
>>>> ================================================================
>>>>
>>>> RRUL Tests:  The charts associated with these RRUL runs are all available 
>>>> at http://richb-hanover.com/rrul-tests-cerowrt-3-10-28-16/
>>>>
>>>> 6089/737:
>>>>        Min: 28.936 10pct: 29.094 Avg: 40.529 Median: 37.961 90pct: 52.636 
>>>> Max: 77.171 Num pings: 77
>>>>
>>>> 6200/750:
>>>>        Min: 28.715 10pct: 29.298 Avg: 41.805 Median: 39.826 90pct: 57.414 
>>>> Max: 72.363 Num pings: 77
>>>>
>>>> 6400/800:
>>>>        Min: 28.706 10pct: 29.119 Avg: 39.598 Median: 38.428 90pct: 52.351 
>>>> Max: 69.492 Num pings: 78
>>>>
>>>> 6600/830:
>>>>        Min: 28.485 10pct: 29.114 Avg: 41.708 Median: 39.753 90pct: 57.552 
>>>> Max: 87.328 Num pings: 77
>>>>
>>>> 7000/800:
>>>>        Min: 28.570 10pct: 29.180 Avg: 46.245 Median: 42.684 90pct: 62.376 
>>>> Max: 169.991 Num pings: 77
>>>>        Min: 28.775 10pct: 29.226 Avg: 43.628 Median: 40.446 90pct: 60.216 
>>>> Max: 121.334 Num pings: 76 (2nd run)
>>>>
>>>> 7000/830:
>>>>        Min: 28.942 10pct: 29.285 Avg: 44.283 Median: 45.318 90pct: 58.002 
>>>> Max: 85.035 Num pings: 78
>>>>        Min: 28.951 10pct: 29.479 Avg: 43.182 Median: 41.000 90pct: 57.570 
>>>> Max: 74.964 Num pings: 76 (2nd run)
>>>>
>>>> 7600/850:
>>>>        Min: 28.756 10pct: 29.078 Avg: 55.426 Median: 46.063 90pct: 81.847 
>>>> Max: 277.807 Num pings: 84
>>>>
>>>> SQM Disabled:
>>>>        Min: 28.665 10pct: 29.062 Avg: 1802.521 Median: 2051.276 90pct: 
>>>> 2762.941 Max: 4217.644 Num pings: 78
>>>>
>>>> ================================================================
>>>>
>>>> Speedtest.net: First values are the reported down/up rates in the 
>>>> Speedtest GUI
>>>>
>>>> 6089/737:
>>>>        5.00/0.58
>>>>        Min: 28.709 10pct: 28.935 Avg: 33.416 Median: 31.619 90pct: 38.608 
>>>> Max: 49.193 Num pings: 45
>>>>
>>>> 6200/750:
>>>>        5.08/0.58
>>>>        Min: 28.759 10pct: 29.055 Avg: 33.974 Median: 32.584 90pct: 41.938 
>>>> Max: 46.605 Num pings: 44
>>>>
>>>> 6400/800:
>>>>        5.24/0.60
>>>>        Min: 28.447 10pct: 28.826 Avg: 34.675 Median: 31.155 90pct: 41.285 
>>>> Max: 81.503 Num pings: 43
>>>>
>>>> 6600/830:
>>>>        5.41/0.65
>>>>        Min: 28.868 10pct: 29.053 Avg: 35.158 Median: 32.928 90pct: 44.099 
>>>> Max: 51.571 Num pings: 44
>>>>
>>>> 7000/800:
>>>>        5.73/0.62
>>>>        Min: 28.359 10pct: 28.841 Avg: 35.205 Median: 33.620 90pct: 43.735 
>>>> Max: 54.812 Num pings: 44
>>>>
>>>> 7000/830:
>>>>        5.74/0.65 (5.71/0.62 second run)
>>>>        Min: 28.605 10pct: 29.055 Avg: 34.945 Median: 31.773 90pct: 42.645 
>>>> Max: 54.077 Num pings: 44
>>>>        Min: 28.649 10pct: 28.820 Avg: 34.866 Median: 32.398 90pct: 43.533 
>>>> Max: 69.288 Num pings: 56 (2nd run)
>>>>
>>>> 7600/850:
>>>>        6.20/0.67
>>>>        Min: 28.835 10pct: 28.963 Avg: 36.253 Median: 34.912 90pct: 44.659 
>>>> Max: 54.023 Num pings: 48
>>>>
>>>> SQM Disabled:
>>>>        6.46/0.73
>>>>        Min: 28.452 10pct: 28.872 Avg: 303.754 Median: 173.498 90pct: 
>>>> 499.678 Max: 1799.814 Num pings: 45
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave Täht
>>>
>>> Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: 
>>> http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dave Täht
>
> Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: 
> http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html



-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html
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