damn, you are right on the money there..... Where you in the pro-gun or
anti-gun group jon? (just trying to see if there is a correlation here, not
trying to start that topic back up)
-george
>From: "Jon Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: CF-Community <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Let's talk about drugs [was:RE: Violent education]
>Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:28:58 -0400
>
>I agree that the governments "war on drugs" is totally misguided.
>However the real reason that drugs are illegal which the government goes
>out
>of their way not to say. Is that drugs in general lower the productivity of
>the population. If drugs were legalized in any fashion, we might be a
>happier country, but the overall productivity of the nation as a whole
>would
>probably drop as we have more fun ;-)
>
>The US govt. wants to keep the illusion we are under that we live in a free
>country and have all sorts of right. This illusion is the root of it's
>power. If we actually lived in a free country we would be allowed to smoke
>marijuana in our houses. So the govt. hides behind scary words, like
>addiction, and crack babies.
>
>Scientific study is also a bad thing, because the truth is impossible to
>avoid. The citizens may learn it, and because "we the people" are still in
>charge because they cant change the Constitution, we may cause the laws to
>be changed, and as a result productivity in this will decline for good or
>worse.
>
>This is where the internet comes into play, and the real reason why it is
>so
>important. Before the internet and it's precursor BBS's, where would we as
>citizens have a place to discuss this issue without fear? Remember, the
>commercials during the 80's? Kids were encouraged to turn in their parents.
>Your neighbors might turn you in too...
>
>We see now that the more socially liberal, and more technically advanced
>states are voting to legalize medicinal marijuana. This is a direct effect
>in my opinion of the ability of citizens to educate themselves as to the
>facts. The real power of the internet is it's ability to allow people to
>communicate. That's why it's so hyped by everyone beyond what it really is.
>Everybody wants to internet to succeed, because it's a tool for giving
>individuals power. Ebay, Yahoo, and everyone else are really just pawns in
>the ordinary citizenries play for more power. They keep money flowing in so
>the internet grows more powerful and so do we.
>
>That's what it's alway's all about anyway.
>
>Money and Power.
>
>jon
>
>p.s. the other constant...sex has already taken advantage of the internet
>;-)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jennifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:01 PM
>Subject: RE: Let's talk about drugs [was:RE: Violent education]
>
>
> > At 12:22 PM 5/23/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> > >Yes..case in point the legalising of medicinal marijuana use at a State
> > >level, and the refusal of the Federal courts to recognise the state
>laws.
> > >
> > >Although in other instances they HAVE allowed States to have their own
>take
> > >on certain laws.
> >
> > The laws in question are pretty strict and one of the reasons that they
>are
> > pretty strict is the "War on Drugs." Federal Law supercedes state law
>and
> > federal law says that marijuana is one of the most dangerous substances
> > available. Where federal law conflicts with local laws, federal wins.
> > Marijuana is simply not as addictive nor as deadly as some drugs that
>are
> > correctly classified as less dangerous, and it is the physical
> > addictiveness and deadly side-effects that are supposed to dictate the
> > classification. Caffeine is more physically addictive than marijuana. I
> > have yet to hear of a case of death caused by marijuana itself, as
>opposed
> > to caused by the bad judgement that its use can induce.
> >
> > Its classification is also why the US can't use hemp paper, even though
> > hemp is an easily renewable resource (unlike trees which can take
>hundreds
> > of years to regrow) which doesn't require the chemicals needed to
>process
> > trees into paper (which are poisonous and very harmful for the
> > environment), and which contains THC in such small amounts that it's
> > unusable as a drug. (Can we say paper industry money?) Hemp clothing has
> > been somewhat ignored but is technically illegal-- there is now talk of
> > prosecuting people for having hemp soap that again contains so little
>THC
> > that it can't be used to get high. How? Under drug laws. All Hail the
>Drug
> > War! I suggest a zero-tolerance policy for all those darned hemp-soap
>using
> > hippies.
> >
> > >They claim that Marijuana has no medicinal uses, even though research
>has
> > >shown otherwise, and anecdotal evidence by the people who are suffering
>and
> > >using marijuana, also shows otherwise.
> >
> > They don't even claim that there are no medicinal uses-- only that the
> > medicinal uses suggested by anecdotal evidence has never been
> > comprehensively proven. Comprehensively proven means that they don't
> > discount the research as "having been done by potheads," that it's been
> > done by "respected scientists" which in part means people who have US or
> > European credentials, and that the results of the experiments are
> > repeatable by large numbers of unbiassed respected scientists. Anyone
>from
> > a country that allows use of marijuana is automatically dismissed as a
> > pothead. Anyone from a country that allows testing of marijuana for
>medical
> > uses is dismissed for "probably having gotten into the test materials."
>The
> > results can't be confirmed by people who can be given the benefit of the
> > doubt, like our own US scientists can be, because those people can't do
>the
> > necessary the experiments to prove or disprove the results.
> >
> > >But I guess if people can grow a herb in their backyard, and get the
> > >benefits of painkillers and psycho therapeutic drugs wihtout the
>terrible
> > >stomach upsets, headaches and numerous other side effects...it would
>dent
> > >the profit margins of quite a few large drug companies ....wouldn't it?
> >
> > It's not just the drug industry that stands to lose money-- there's
>drugs,
> > paper, textiles, and fuel, plus the industries that support them:
>chemical,
> > wood, cotton, wool, flax, oil, natural gas, etc. There are a lot of
> > businesses that would be hurt by the legalization of marijuana and/or
>hemp.
> >
> > But, to be fair, marijuana does have side-effects. It's an hallucinogen.
> > Generally speaking, hallucination is considered a bad side-effect.
>However,
> > several psychiatric drugs are also hallucinogens and LSD was originally
>an
> > attempt at an anti-depressant (as was aspartame, better known as
> > Nutra-Sweet, which has really bad side-effects including short-term
>memory
> > loss). Many psychiatric drugs are just plain scary in terms of
> > mood-alteration and side-effects. The reason that people are trying to
>come
> > up with synthetics for marijuana is to allow the benefits without the
> > side-effects. But other substances that cause bad side-effects are
> > prescribed when the side-effects are less problematic than the symptoms.
> > These are usually last-resort medicines.
> >
> > And that is what medical marijuana was intended to be. Really strong
> > painkillers (opiates, in particular) can cause severe nausea. If a
>patient
> > on those painkillers has nausea as a side-effect, giving him/her/it
> > anti-nausea medication can decrease the effectiveness of the
>painkillers.
> > I've had this side-effect while passing two kidney stones-- it is not a
> > withdrawl side-effect, although withdrawl can also cause nausea. If you
>are
> > already in enough pain to get that medicine, throwing up half-an-hour
>after
> > taking it every time you take it makes it a pretty horrible medication.
> > That side-effect in a person who already has nausea is probably much
>worse.
> >
> > Unfortunately, there is no last resort medication for the combination of
> > pain and nausea. If marijuana has any medical benefit, people who are
>not
> > helped by other medication fit the requirements for a last resort
> > medication. Being unable to keep food in your stomach can cause death.
> > Death is a more severe side-effect than hallucinations. If it could be
> > proven to US government standards that marijuana could help these
>people,
> > it could probably be legalized federally for medicinal uses.
>Unfortunately,
> > if the current situation continues, this will never happen.
> >
> >
> > > >;-)
> > >
> > >-Gel
> > >And the Wheel Of Morality Turns.
> > >Turn Turn Turn
> >
> > Show us the lesson that we should learn...
> >
> > >Wheel Of Morality..
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Jennifer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > >
> > >That's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that "any and all efforts"
>(not
> > >even any and all existing efforts, but any and all efforts) to thwart
>drug
> > >use would include stopping drug use even when it is medically
>justified.
> > >Stopping legal use of illegal drugs is a valid effort to stop people
>from
> > >using those drugs. You have mentioned several exceptions to laws. My
>point
> > >is that "any and all" allows no room for exceptions and thus allows no
>room
> > >for legitimate or understandable uses, which makes the statement not
>very
> > >well thought out.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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