As someone who was introduced to the real programming world via AS/400 and
RPG (not the private one where I used to create games and stuff in Basic A)
..... and being ever fascinated with the AS/400 and the potential market out
there for putting front ends on these mainframe monstrosities... (though
they have become the size of small Saint Bernards lately) ... may I tell you
my synopsis of the whole thing. (I told you I would revisit this question
<grin>)
In my opinion, they used Java because AS/400 = IBM and IBM knows Sun Java.
When that's where the influence lies, that's where everyone flocks. I have
several books, Java for the RPG Programmer among them, for working with the
AS/400 and creating intuitive front ends. They've been working together for
years.
And this may be a bit of a tangent, but indulge me.....
This was about 3 years ago...sure times have changed a bit. AS/400 machines
have evolved as well as their software. With some of the new connection
tools, (ie ODBC) we could use whatever we want. A year ago I pitched a job
proposal to a big NYC firm to hook up a web front end without the need of
Java (ColdFusion baby!), a project that was to have taken 6 months less than
the proposal that was in for a Java front end. (it was a law firm, and they
are still trying to figure out what they want to do). (Give me NEO, give me
NEO!!!!!!)
<AS_400_Rant>
Another thing that AS/400 people have in the back of their heads at all
times is that thing about security. (Security? Who needs security?!) I had
done an ASP-driven (sorry for the foul language) extranet for this same law
firm. The web servers we used sat in NJ and their offices were in NY. We had
the tools for setting up their AS/400 machine to allow us to make a direct
connection to get our datafeed....we were running through over 300,000
records every night. (big scheduling app). They would not let us do it. They
thought that it was a security breach to allow us a direct hookup. The data
we were using was "TOP SECRET, VERY SENSITIVE" ..... "Figure out how to get
the data from us another way." So through this elaborate export from their
machine, a file was then emailed to a "special" machine running Eudora.
Then, through a manual process we downloaded it, parsed through it with some
Perl scripts, threw it into SQL which we then used for the extranet
scheduling app. Getting this bit to work took 7 months. Why? The data from
them was NEVER constant. blah blah blah, I could talk about this project
forever....someday over a beer....
</AS_400_Rant>
The point is, if I had been in house with them, and we suggested Java to do
this particular job and drive the front end, they would have been ok. It
would have cost a gazillion more, but Java they knew. And were comfortable
with. <sigh>
OK, I've rambled. Need more coffee......
Erika
ReplaceNoCase("Erica", "c", "k", "ALL")
"One of the greatest pains to human nature is the pain of a new idea." -
Walter Bagehot
-----------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 6:28 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Extending legacy systems through Java
Then there is the answer...with odbc, the java frontend seems totally
unnecessary.
jon
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 4:28 AM
Subject: RE: Extending legacy systems through Java
> "I dont think anyone has ever
> connected CF to an AS/400 system ;-)"
>
> They have, you know - the IBM Client Access app allows you to set up ODBC
> drivers for remote AS/400 systems which you can call from CF just like any
> other ODBC driver. YOu can use stored procedures and everything.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 25 May 2001 09:08
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: Extending legacy systems through Java
>
>
> I think my original answer is still valid unfortunately. Connecting to
> legacy systems is not a strength of CF. I dont think anyone has ever
> connected CF to an AS/400 system ;-)
> However, I think the cost is is even more at the forefront with your
> clarification. If I was approached by a company with a large investment in
> legacy systems, and needed a distributed internet app. I would approach it
> differently. The weak point in their approach I think is that it
apparently
> requires multiple network connections to stay rock solid to work at all.
> This is not realistic, unless they want to spend a lot of money for
> redundancy.
> I think I would try and get the data to a real database that CF (or
anything
> else) can work with first. This may require a custom developed bridge be
> developed, but once the system for synchronizing the data is up and
running,
> it would be much easier and cheaper to present the data on the web, with
> technologies that are meant to work on the web, if that makes sense.
Unless
> all of the agents in the field have fast computers with fast internet
links,
> they are going to hate work with a java app I'd think. Java isn't known
for
> it's speed.
> The whole concept of extending legacy systems just rubs me the wrong way
> anyway. They need to bite the bullet and get modern, or expect to pay a
ton
> of money to keep extending it.
>
> hth
> jon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher P. Maher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 7:46 PM
> Subject: RE: Extending legacy systems through Java
>
>
> > Jon,
> >
> > Perhaps I was not clear in my explanation.
> >
> > My competitors did not write a java program that does the same thing my
> > application does. They are using a 3rd party java program to extend
their
> > legacy system (in one case an AS/400 and the other VB) to the Internet.
> >
> > What they have done is take an application written for a local network
and
> > run it through a java program so it can run on the Internet. Like a
> > Citrix/WinFrame approach and a little like running pcAnywhere.
> >
> > Sorry if I was not clear. Perhaps you would like to take another stab at
> > answering my question.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:23 AM
> > > To: CF-Community
> > > Subject: Re: Extending legacy systems through Java
> > >
> > >
> > > This is real simple. Coldfusion's strength is not it's power,
> > > even though it
> > > powerful, but it's speed and ease of development.
> > > A good java programmer can whip out a networked java app in the
> > > same time we
> > > can whip together the same app in CF, but good java programmers get
paid
> a
> > > lot more too.
> > > That should enable you to undercut their prices by quite a bit.
> Especially
> > > when comparing to a custom java application.
> > >
> > > Quite simply, the _potential_ power of a custom java application is
far
> > > greater than anything CF can deliver.
> > > Your competitors are not cheating, they are leveraging more powerful
> > > technoligies. Time to learn to us a bigger gun if you hope to win on
the
> > > same battlefield.
> > >
> > > I am really surprised about the lack of buzz for Neo among CF
> developers,
> > > which will help level the battlefield somewhat and IIRC it is slated
for
> > > release later this year.
> > >
> > > jon
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Christopher P. Maher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:52 PM
> > > Subject: Extending legacy systems through Java
> > >
> > >
> > > > As CF developers we often run into competing technologies and find
> > > ourselves
> > > > in need of reasons why a CF system is at least as good if not
better.
> > > There
> > > > have been lots of threads here and on CF-Talk comparing CF to other
> web
> > > > development technologies. Rather than ASP or PHP, I have concerns
> about
> > > > other technologies.
> > > >
> > > > I have recently run into companies that are putting legacy
> > > applications on
> > > > the web through Java clients. This is a real competitive
> > > concern for me as
> > > > most companies in my target market (insurance) already have back end
> > > > systems. If they can easily put these applications on the Internet
for
> > > their
> > > > agents, then it makes what I do (a "real" HTML output system built
> with
> > > CF)
> > > > potentially irrelevant.
> > > >
> > > > The two particular products I know about are:
> > > >
> > > > Tarantella http://www.tarantella.com
> > > > J Walk Java Client by SEAGULL http://www.seagullsw.com/
> > > >
> > > > The SUN website has an article about extending legacy systems in
this
> > > manner
> > > > which is - obviously - rather positive.
> > > > http://java.sun.com/features/1999/08/unshackled1.html
> > > >
> > > > Apart from feeling like my competitors are "cheating" by using such
> > > > approaches, I would love to have a better understanding of these
> > > approaches
> > > > and some ammunition for why they are not as good of a solution as a
CF
> > > > system.
> > > >
> > > > The particular context for these systems is use by the company's
> agents.
> > > So
> > > > the fact that the general public will never download the
> > > necessary plugin
> > > > isn't a good argument.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for any input.
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > Christopher P. Maher
> > > > Maher Associates, Inc.
> > > > Actuarial and Computer Consulting
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > http://www.maherassociates.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
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