You live in Brampton? My sister used to live there. My family is in
Ottawa though, with the cousins in various Toronto area neighborhoods.
Dana
----- Original Message -----
From: Dharmesh Goel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 10:03:58 -0400
Subject: RE: who votes?
To: CF-Community <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Same sentiments. But for the general population that does not keep
themselves informed, have a short term memory. The previous government
(PC) in Ontario left the province with a 5.6 billion dollar deficit.
Because of them the liberals had to start levying a health premium
based on income (from 300 to 900 per year). The general population in
my opinion did not co-relate the two facts and liberals lost a lot of
support federally because of this. The PC in it's heyday had tried to
buyout voters by reducing taxes and giving back rebates not once but
twice in relation to hydro (Our electricity system). The hydro system
is already in debt to a tune of 10+billion dollars and we still pay a
subsidized rate. So because of those rebates and other bad decisions
we now pay a debt retirement charge in our bills. They also started
delving in the PPP system for hospitals (Public Private Partnership).
One of the two such hospitals is located in Brampton. Let me rephrase,
the ground breaking was done to much photo-op more than 2 years back
but not a brick has been laid. Costs have tripled to over 500 mil and
right now the private consortium is holding the government to ransom
of 20+ mil in cost escalations. Interestingly the local MPP of the
riding, Tony Clement, was the health minister in the PC government. He
spoke with such conviction about the PPP that you wondered who he
represented. End result, he lost badly in the elections late last year
to a rookie. His government got trounced. He then stood for the
federal leadership of the conservatives and lost to Stephen Harper.
And now he recently lost the federal election as well to represent
Brampton West. 3 defeats in less than a year has forced him to retire
from politics for a few years. Good riddance I say.
DG
-----Original Message-----
From: dana tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 8:01 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: who votes?
I'm already registered, Brian. Here. I will say on reading this that
the political comment I hear from my family is overwhelmingly disgust
with the Conservatives, especially with the former Conservative
provincial administration's health care policies.
Dana
Fear of Hidden Agenda Swung Canadian Vote
By DeNeen L. Brown
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, July 3, 2004; Page A12
TORONTO, July 2 -- In the final hours before a historic vote
anticipated as a shift toward conservatism, Canadians pondered the
shape of their country, and many decided abruptly, as they cast their
votes, to stick with their social agenda, political analysts said.
Although angry with the governing Liberal Party for financial scandals
and ready for a change, in the end these Canadians voted for the devil
they knew over the devil they did not know.
Political analysts said the unexpected, though minor, victory on
Monday by the Liberal Party of Prime Minister Paul Martin was a result
of fears that the Conservative Party had a hidden agenda. The analysts
said the Liberals played up the Conservative agenda -- and voters
listened. Some voters, the analysts said, feared the Conservatives,
led by Stephen Harper, would cut taxes, repeal same-sex marriage
rights, abandon environmental treaties, change immigration policies
and move the country closer to the United States.
"I've heard people say anecdotally, 'My mother went into a booth to
vote Conservative and came out Liberal,' " said John Wright, senior
vice president at Ipsos-Reid polling firm. Wright said the election
never rested in the hands of undecided voters, but with swing voters
in the vote-rich province of Ontario who switched at the last minute.
"The election was swung by 6 or 7 percent of the public who got up
from the dinner table or lunch table and switched their votes," Wright
said. "They got to the cliff and instead of turning right, they turned
left."
Major public opinion polls in the last week of the campaign predicted
a tight race, some even saying the Conservatives could become a
minority government and end 11 years of Liberal rule. Harper, 45, the
photogenic economist who had succeeded in uniting the conservative
parties, had gained momentum. Amid the predictions, Harper was
preparing to take over as prime minister.
"To put it in U.S. terms, a 'blue state' country nearly flipped and
became a 'red state' country," said John Duffy, a Liberal Party
strategist, referring to the U.S. practice of identifying Democratic
states as blue and Republican states as red on political maps. "This
Conservative Party is an unusual one in Canadian historical terms and
is much less 'small l' liberal than any national party that has ever
run before and come close to winning. It was a huge change that didn't
happen."
When the votes were counted, the Liberals squeaked by with a minority
government, winning 135 seats in Parliament, which now has 308 seats.
The Conservatives, who were predicted to win more than 125 seats, won
just 99, barely breaking out of their traditional strongholds in the
West. The New Democratic Party won 19 seats, and the Bloc Quebecois
won 54.
"If you accuse someone of having a secret agenda, there is no adequate
response," said Roger Gibbins, president of the Canada West
Foundation, a public policy research organization in Calgary. "I think
Harper had a tough time with that accusation. If I claim you have a
hidden agenda and if you deny it, my response is of course you deny it
because it is a hidden agenda. A hidden agenda can't be disproved."
Gibbins said another big issue in the campaign was a desire by many
Canadians to stay as far as possible from policies similar to those of
the United States. "George Bush played a far more important role in
sharpening that debate about Canada-U.S. relations than Stephen Harper
played," Gibbins said. "We haven't had an American president in a
while that is as ill-perceived in Canada as President Bush. Canadians
tend to be Democrats rather than Republicans."
A recent headline in Maclean's magazine summarized the anti-Bush
sentiment in Canada: "Canadians to Bush: Hope You Lose, Eh?" The
headline drew much angry response from American readers but
crystallized the discourse here about U.S.-Canadian relations.
"Interesting that Michael Moore and his 'Fahrenheit 9/11' has received
such broad positive coverage in this country," Tim Powers, a
Conservative Party strategist, said in a reference to a new
documentary film critical of Bush. "There is a reevaluating of the
current president that hasn't helped us here. The Liberals brought
forward a campaign, as did the NDP, linking the Conservatives to the
Republican Party. It's hard to compete against all these forces of
branding."
Martin, 65, who began his term as prime minister promising to amend
tattered relations with the United States, walked a fine line by
trying not to appear to be too friendly with the United States. He
consistently portrayed Harper as supporting the war in Iraq, U.S.
values, privatized health care, repeal of gun control laws and
increased military spending. "This campaign is about the Canada you
want," Martin said on the campaign trail.
Liberal attack ads, showing photos of past Conservative leaders who
cut social programs and education in Ontario, ran frequently on
television and radio with ominous voices warning Canadians, "Think
Twice. Vote Once."
The ads were unleashed as the Conservative campaign made a series of
missteps that revealed that a contingent of hard-liners was active in
the party, analysts said. Days before the vote, a documentary
filmmaker released an interview with Randy White, a Conservative
member of Parliament. White said the Conservatives would take steps to
limit the rights of same-sex couples. He also said the judicial
system, which has been active in reshaping social policy, needed to be
reined in.
Martin and the Liberals capitalized on the documentary, saying it was
evidence that the hidden agenda had been revealed.
The fear factor also played against the New Democratic Party, analysts
said. They said voters favoring the NDP may have changed their minds
at the last minute, voting for the Liberals to stop the Conservatives.
At one polling place, Roderick Robinson, 39, recalled a conversation
with a Conservative candidate. He asked the candidate about the
party's position on immigration. "His response was, 'We are not
against immigrants; however, our policy would be to look at bringing
in skilled immigrants," Robinson said. "Those comments really
concerned me immensely. I decided I would much rather vote Liberal,
which I've never voted before."
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Meloche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 17:16:36 -0400
Subject: Re: who votes?
To: CF-Community <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Larry, I hate this latest tendancy for a newspaper to require you to
register to read an article. That Post link required me to register
to see the article. I shouldn't have to give a company my email
address just to read a webpage... so I declined.
The PCs in Ontario under Mike Harris lowered taxes (only a little),
but they made so many cuts that it's not the province I grew up in.
My mother's expenses were so high when my dad went into "continuing
care" (in other words... mom had to pay) for two years before he died
that she had to get a mortgage to pay them off. Now, the estate is
stuck with the mortgage, and I have no choice but to sell the house I
grew up in. The bank won't give me a mortgage because I don't live or
work in Canada and wouldn't live in the house. If I did live in the
house, I would have to quit my job - it's a Catch 22.
On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 10:30:41 -0400, Larry C. Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There was some coverage in the Post but the US is so insular that any
> coverage is remarkable. Here's the latest little bit:
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24504-2004Jul2.html
>
> The interesting thing about the article is that is really echos what
> many of my friends back in BC and Manitoba talked about. Several of
> them were Tories but voted liberal because of their dislike (rather
> disgust) of Harper.
>
> I really feel the same way about the Conservatives myself. They were
> responsible for a 60% cut in federal funding for research. When my
> grant was zeroed out, I really had no choice but to look to the US. I
> know of many other grad students and scientists who ended up doing the
> same.
>
> larry
>
>
>
> On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 01:39:30 -0400, Brian Meloche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 16:59:15 -0600, dana tierney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > PQ has 54 seats? Wow. Who is the leader of the PC part right now? I
> > > though it was a matter of a minority Liberal government?
> >
> > Stephen Harper is the leader of the new Conservative Party of Canada,
> > which was formed to merge the Progressive Conservatives and the
> > Alliance Party. The Conservatives got 99 seats, second to the
> > Liberals' 135. A majority is 155 of the 308 seats. With the NDP with
> > 19 and one independent, the Liberals were able to form a government...
> > barely. Minority governments don't tend to last very long. I imagine
> > that will be the case this time.
> >
> > Thanks to being in Windsor due to the recent death of my mother (for
> > those that don't already know), I got to vote this time around in an
> > advance poll. I voted Liberal, but the NDP MP won the riding. I used
> > to be a "card-carrying" member of the party, but now I just think they
> > are the lesser of evils. Conservatives will never get my vote after
> > the GST... NEVER... no matter what they currently call themselves.
> >
> > By the way, I never saw any coverage in the States about the Canadian election.
> >
> > --
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Brian Meloche
> > http://www.brianmeloche.com
> >
> >
>
>________________________________
[Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings] [Donations and Support]
