> Brian wrote:
> And I'm not sure I agree with your ascertion that you have to go "over the
> top" to get normal stuff done. When an organization starts going "over the
> top", they start to trivialize themselves in my mind (PETA for example).
> 

Do have any examples of positions that that ACLU has fought for that
you don't support?

For me one example (and I don't know many) is getting a cross off the
seal of California.  While the cross CAN be a religious symbol, it's
also a historic symbol of their missionary past so I have no
objections to it.

Another is the "one nation, under God" - I'm not sure I care about
this as "God" is not the church, man is, and it's man we need to be
protected from.

As to the "over the top", that's the negotiator in me talking. 
Usually you have to demand 2 times more than you want to get what you
need.

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