give me a break
What exactly is your point anyway beth. you don't see to be saying anything
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fleischer, Beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 4:07 AM
Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
> WHAT?
> Are you denying you said this:
> manufacture of 'stories' (one of these being the
> > > > celebrating Palistinians, another being the oppression of
> women in
> > > > Aphganistan for example).
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Benjamin Falloon [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:28 PM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
> >
> > You read into my words through your own stereotypical view of
> > non-mainstream
> > thinking...
> >
> > My original post concerned the discussion surrounding the so called
> > 'celebrating Palastinians'. My critisism was limited to a discussion
> > concerning oppinions on this footage. Having said that, I don't welcome
> > you
> > putting words in my mouth concerning my position on the Taliban and
their
> > oppressive regime.
> >
> > You've attempted to discredit my criticism of corporate owned media by
> > insinuating that I support the Taliban because I mistrust the news. Your
> > conclusions are weak. You can label my words as "liberal mantra" if you
> > wish, but in my oppinion this does your position no credit as it implies
> > you're more interested in labels and stereotypes then a discussion of
any
> > real depth.
> >
> > Keep watching television Howard. It appears to do you a lot of good.
> >
> > Benjamin
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:17 PM
> > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
> >
> >
> > > I don't want to misstate what you're saying, but let me boil down for
> > you
> > > what I hear you saying:
> > >
> > > 1) The news may be factually correct, though the nuance may be off
> > because
> > > of entertainment values -- therefore, the "real" news is some how
> > obscured.
> > >
> > > 2) Because the "news" has been remanufactured to a degree, and no
longer
> > > reflects the raw, unvarnished truth, it is offensive to base any
> > conclusions
> > > this "newstainment."
> > >
> > > Am I understanding you correctly?
> > >
> > > Therefore, we should not condemn the Taliban for beating, stoning and
> > > murdering women because, by golly, we learned about it on a network
news
> > > show. And it was edited. And who knows what was left out. A Taliban
> > denial
> > > maybe? Or possibly a Taliban apology ("We didn't mean to stone those
> > women
> > > to death -- the rock just slipped. Sorry.")
> > >
> > > Is that really what you're saying. I mean, because that's what I hear
> > you
> > > saying. And I find it pretty offensive.
> > >
> > > If the facts are correct, it matters little how they are delivered.
And
> > no
> > > amount of political correctness (in this case, the liberal mantra of
we
> > > shouldn't criticize other "cultures") can possibly justify what the
> > Taliban
> > > has done to women and dissenters within Afghanistan.
> > >
> > > H.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:18 PM
> > > To: CF-Community
> > > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
> > >
> > >
> > > Beth,
> > >
> > > I'm not certain how you arrived at such an exaggerated understanding
of
> > my
> > > original post. But allow me at least the oppertunity to expand my
> > perspetive
> > > before you sarcastically attack my posts once more, even though the
> > original
> > > post was not even address to you.
> > >
> > > I may have refered to television (and this can be broadened to any
> > > corporately own/operated news service) as manufactured, but I did not
in
> > any
> > > way insinuate that the 'stories' were myth. News services (mostly)
> > deliver
> > > their content in a highly constructed way. News is like coka cola;
coke
> > is
> > > based on sugar, a 'real world' ingredient, just as the "oppression of
> > > afghanistan women" may too be 'real world', but the end result
delivered
> > by
> > > the news services is nothing 'natural'... it is a manufacured
construct
> > > intentionally mixed to produce the desired effect. This is how I view
> > > corporate news services. Most of what is aired looks no different
from,
> > and
> > > indeed reflects the kind of news approach highlighted by the nineties
> > film
> > > "Wag the Dog".
> > >
> > > Images are carefully selected, edited and cut with emotive music and
> > > commentry designed to promote a certain perspective. Exactly whose
> > > perspective/interests/politics represented are beyond the reach of
this
> > > discussion, but the net effect of these kinds of presentations are not
> > at
> > > all dissimilar to those effects achieved by the entertainment industry
> > as
> > a
> > > whole.
> > >
> > > News is entertainment/entertainment is news. I find making judgements
> > upon
> > > other peoples/cultures etc based on this kind of information
offensive.
> > >
> > > I recall a previous post by Gary that brought up the lack on true
> > > investigative reporting in the main stream news. My oppinion on the
news
> > is
> > > an extension of this logic.
> > >
> > > Benjamin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Fleischer, Beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:12 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
> > >
> > >
> > > > Folks!!
> > > >
> > > > did you hear it! The oppression of afghanistan women is a myth,
made
> > up
> > > by
> > > > the media.
> > > >
> > > > Benjamin, I heard about the plight of afghani women several years
ago
> > when
> > > > an afghan woman came to speak at a university. Did she make it up
> > too?
> > > was
> > > > she in on the big media conspiracy? Were the stories she told of
> > women
> > > > being killed for walking down the street with a man whom they
weren't
> > > > married to made up too? Were the stories of female lawyers and
doctors
> > > made
> > > > up too? And she left afghanistan not because she was no longer
> > allowed
> > > to
> > > > practice law there, but just to spread these lies about the
wonderful
> > > > taliban rule? All those underground schools to teach girls dont'
> > exist
> > > > right - because under the taliban rule girls WERE allowed to go to
> > school?
> > > > And all this information I received prior to 9/11 - it was made up
for
> > > WHAT
> > > > REASON?
> > > >
> > > > so, all the people in afghanistan listening to music again, shaving
> > their
> > > > beards, taking off their masks, they weren't really oppressed its
just
> > a
> > > > media invention, right?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The western media is at best, extrodinatily limited in it's
> > > representation
> > > > > of 'real people' in the middle east (or media east as it's exists
> > for
> > > us).
> > > > > Furthermore, it's representation is more often designed to promote
> > this
> > > > > kind
> > > > > of discussion by manufacture of 'stories' (one of these being the
> > > > > celebrating Palistinians, another being the oppression of women in
> > > > > Aphganistan for example). These stories are the developed and made
> > self
> > > > > referencial, repeated over and over by all media outlets until
they
> > > become
> > > > > the measure of oppinion polls on presidencial popularity. There
> > simplify
> > > > > polarize and synthasize politics and culture for the fast food
> > culture
> > > > > that
> > > > > is America.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Michael Dinowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:18 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 1. There were a LOT more than 1 woman and 5 kids. There were PA
> > police
> > > > > > taking camera's away from reporters to avoid the news from it.
> > There
> > > > > were
> > > > > > letters of protest from the AP and Reuters over it. I know
people
> > who
> > > > > live
> > > > > > in Israel and have first hand reports as do many others.
> > > > > > 2. The rumor that it was old footage was debunked. It started
with
> > a
> > > > > > student in Argentina and spread. It was real footage.
> > > > > > 3. I don't condemn any Palestinian for the actions of some truly
> > sick
> > > > > > people who take pride and happiness in the suffering of others.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >As or your second quesion...
> > > > > > >First, that clip of a women dancing and five kids
> > > > > > >clapping there hands, I wouldnt realy know how that is
> > > > > > >considred 'my people', last time i checked, the
> > > > > > >Palestinian population was not reprented by a women
> > > > > > >and 5 kids, and yes, a car passing by blowings its
> > > > > > >horn...Second, CNN, which first aired the clip, was
> > > > > > >and still is accused of airing an old clip which was
> > > > > > >taking during the Iraq war, except , sadly, no media
> > > > > > >outlet would ever let the story run, nor deny or
> > > > > > >confirm the reports....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Now i dont know if that is right or wrong, I do
> > > > > > >believe that YES, its very possible that there does
> > > > > > >exist a palestinian women who danced in the streets,
> > > > > > >and its so re-assuring that a camera somehow found her
> > > > > > >dancing and aired her image, two hours after the
> > > > > > >incident.....I would think there would be more
> > > > > > >pressing issues at that time,but i guess a Palestinian
> > > > > > >women supposedly dancing in the streets of
> > > > > > >Palestine,is more important than the those tens and
> > > > > > >thousands of casualties and the chaos that was
> > > > > > >happening here..
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I guess the Palestinians where just about to get there
> > > > > > >independence and your blessings, and this women came
> > > > > > >and screwed everything up for us!!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >BTW, the women was kinda a heavy set, so i wouldnt
> > > > > > >realy call it "Jumping up for Joy", the poor old lady
> > > > > > >could barely walk, but she was eating sweets, which
> > > > > > >does probably translate to her as jumping up for
> > > > > > >joy!!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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