Again, I hope you are right. I do agree with your conclusions, btw, but unless I missed it (always possible) I have not seen much original reporting that says the insurgents are Baathists. I have seen a lot of American officials *quoted* as saying that the insurgents are Baathists, and foreign mercenaries.
As for control of the territory -- do *we* have it? I think not. Yeah, we crushed Fallujah. Did we crush the insurgents there? I am not sure. Maybe they had the resources to get out. Maybe all we did was make a lot of civilians homeless. This is all speculation of course. I don't really know. The thing that is scary is that I suspect the people running the American side of this don't know either. I remember seeing some stories about a reporter from, I think the Washington Post, who went over there with an Arabic speaker, and the story he was getting from the Iraqi troops (on our side) was vastly different than what was coming out through official channels. Sorry, I don't have a link. Dana On 8/16/05, Robert Munn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There has been a fair amount of coverage on the subject of the makeup of the > insurgency if you dig through the press coverage. Partly they are hardcore > Baathists who are dead-enders, basically. They oppose the new government > because they want the old regime back. Partly they are foreign fighters who > are waging a holy war. Partly they are just average guys who are getting cash > to fire guns at Americans and Iraqi soldiers. > > They don't have a government, hell, they don't even have a single command > structure. There isn't just one group. > > In terms of controlling territory, our troops can go anywhere in the country > in force. Does that mean the enemy isn't there? No, of course not. But the > enemy doesn't have the capability to meet us in the field, which is why they > don't control any territory. You can only control territory if you can defend > it. They had control of several cities before, mainly Fallujah, and we > crushed them. > > In terms of bringing democracy, it is very clear that the Kurds and the > Shiites badly want democracy. It may not be the kind of secular western > democracy the civilians in the Pentagon thought they could impose on Iraq, > but it will be a government by the people for the people. The Sunnis are > still pissed that they are no longer in control of the country. They see > themselves as the rightful rulers of Iraq and they look at the Kurds and > Shiites as dogs and heretics. > > We need to understand what will motivate people to participate in the > government together without resorting to civil war. After that, we don't try > to understand, and we don't try to impose, we just provide a stable framework > to help them work out their own problems. My biggest problem with the effort > of the Pentagon has been thist foolish and arrogant notion that their > democracy should look like our democracy. I say let the Iraqis work it out > for themselves. > > >I hate to be a spoilsport, but exactly how do you know this? It seems > >to me that the whole problem is that we do not understand the culture > >of the place we are trying to ahem, bring democracy to, allegedly. > > > >There's no government in the sense that we have DC, but... what about > >control of territory? I'd like to know what a foot soldier in Iraq > >thinks about that. Three and four are even more questionable. > > > >Dana > > > >On 8/16/05, Robert Munn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:169684 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
