thanks Tony I appreciate it. larry
On 12/4/05, Rastafari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > wow. > > one thing, larry is far from pompous... he is a gentle soul > from what i could tell. we are all VERY over smart people > thats why we do what we do and how we do it... > > some of us just do not know to iterate everything we have to > say, in the best method. like a pizza delivery going to the > wrong house. Great pizza, bad delivery. > > tw > > On 12/4/05, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I don't *think* I am demented :) But a) no it is not the issue and b) I can > > see that the thread would be confusing. So here is a brief synopis. > > > > 1. Jill asks what people are having for supper > > 2. My answer - various health drinks; ginko balboa is mentioned > > 3. Sam says I heard that didn't work > > 4. In the throes of much caffeine I get sarcastic and say work for WHAT is > > the question. > > 5. Sam mentions memory, a previous lengthy thread here > > 6. I tell him that's not why I had them add it to my smoothie and mention > > the anticoagulant properties > > 7. relatively amiable discussion, I summarize by saying right, some people > > think it helps with dementia, there isn't much in the way of studies on > > memory outside of that, but this si irrelevant, yada yada yada. I posted all > > these studies in a discussion with Jim Davis months ago. > > 8. Larry having apparentlly read none of the above jumps in to say that > > science has proven that ginko balboa has no effect at all and once again > > posts a link that does not seem to support what he is saying. > > 9. I post link to study showing that ginko balboa potentiates coumadin, > > wondering wtf, does Larry really think I would not have researched an > > illness I had -- maybe I should tell him there's no evidence his insulin > > pump works and he is a poor deluded soul clinging to hope when all is > > hopeless :) > > > > 10. In a nutshell - It's a stupid argument. Larry is a pompous asshole who > > should not give a shit WHAT supplement I have them add to my smoothie. But > > he has it in his head that he is Mr Science and so obviously right that any > > study out there must naturally support his suprficial suppositions. > > > > back to work > > Dana > > On 12/4/05, Tony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > i get that... but dementia... was that the issue? > > > or some blood/circulation disorder. im demented too, its > > > ok if you are :) > > > > > > tw > > > > > > On 12/4/05, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > coumadin is an anti-coagulant. So is ginko balboa. > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/4/05, Tony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > i guess i have no idea what this is all about. > > > > > and what is coumadin for? > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > On 12/4/05, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > ok I went and looked anyway. It does say that there is a benefit if > > > the > > > > > > doses are pooled. Not quite sure what that means, but it does tend > > > to > > > > > > indicate that the issue is a little more complex than you portray it > > > to > > > > > be. > > > > > > Again. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/4/05, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tsk as usually you are poo pooing without reading. You'd be funny > > > if > > > > > you > > > > > > > weren't so condescending. The attitude of real science indeed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, I am talking about anticoagulation, as Sam has already > > > > > realized. > > > > > > > Remember that the next time you call him a Neanderthal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for your study, don't have time. It may say this but given your > > > > > track > > > > > > > record I am willing to bet it says more than that too. In any > > > event > > > > > there > > > > > > > are other studies, peer-reviewed, my friend. See the archives; > > > posted > > > > > them > > > > > > > this summer. Ther aren't a lot -- there are problems with > > > establishing > > > > > a > > > > > > > standard does as I have already mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/4/05, Larry C. Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that this Cocheran based meta analysis summarizes the > > > > > attitude > > > > > > > > of real science, there is no real effect for ginko beyond a > > > placebo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.antiwrap.com/?789 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ginkgo biloba Compared with Cholinesterase Inhibitors in the > > > > > Treatment > > > > > > > > of Dementia: A Review Based on Meta-Analyses by the Cochrane > > > > > > > > Collaboration > > > > > > > > A. Kurza, B. Van Baelenb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aDepartment of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, Technical > > > University > > > > > > > > Munich, Munich, Germany; > > > > > > > > bMedisearch International, Mechelen, Belgium > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dementia and Geriatric Cognitive Disorders 2004;18:217-226 (DOI: > > > > > > > > 10.1159/000079388) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Abstract > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Data were derived from the Cochrane Collaboration meta-analyses > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > efficacies of ginkgo, donepezil, rivastigmine and galantamine on > > > > > > > > changes in cognitive function in patients with dementia and, > > > where > > > > > > > > necessary, were transformed to standardized mean differences. > > > The > > > > > > > > proportion of patients discontinuing trials was used as a proxy > > > > > > > > measure of tolerability. Outcomes were assessed after 6 months > > > of > > > > > > > > treatment. Trial data for cholinesterase inhibitors were more > > > > > > > > consistent than those for ginkgo, particularly regarding patient > > > > > > > > populations and outcome measures. Significant benefits on > > > cognition > > > > > > > > vs. placebo were seen with donepezil, 5 and 10 mg, rivastigmine, > > > > > 6-12 > > > > > > > > mg, and galantamine, 16 and 24 mg. Significant benefit vs. > > > placebo > > > > > > > > with ginkgo was seen only when all doses were pooled. Similar > > > > > > > > proportions of patients discontinued treatment with ginkgo and > > > > > > > > placebo. Cholinesterase inhibitors were also well tolerated, > > > > > although > > > > > > > > a significantly greater proportion of patients receiving active > > > > > > > > treatment discontinued vs. placebo with some doses. An > > > > > evidence-based > > > > > > > > medicine approach, taking into account the quality of clinical > > > > > trials, > > > > > > > > is essential when assessing the safety and efficacy of > > > medications. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:185718 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
