We didn't chop their heads off in public squares Larry, that's a bit of a different level.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:46 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: Next in line to be labeled Dictator by America > > Tim, > > You're incorrect there. There were plenty of cases were the > loyalists were executed, or all but. George Washington > reported advocated that loyalists should be shot, while > Franklin had his own son confined in some pretty horrid > conditions until he died. > larry > > On 1/11/06, Tim Heald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What about the French revolution? We aren't French, we are > American's. > > > > Even British loyalists during and after the revolution weren't > > executed in the streets here. There were some cases where a person > > would be killed over their politics, but mainly they were > "rail roaded" or "tar and feathered". > > Not killed, not jailed, and not tortured. > > > > Westward expansion? Ok, so we had room to grow, to spread > out, and it > > allowed for a lot of innovation. How does this support > your call for > > welfare? > > > > I'm confused. If anything I think that the move westward > would back > > the capitalist small government argument. Thousands of people went > > into the woods with nothing but weapons and supplies, no government > > help, and built cities where once their was nothing. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Chesty Puller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:37 AM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: Re: Next in line to be labeled Dictator by America > > > > > > First of all, we had westward expansion - 40 acres and a mule. > > > But then think about the French Revolution. > > > > > > - Matt > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Loathe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "CF-Community" <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 9:59 PM > > > Subject: RE: Next in line to be labeled Dictator by America > > > > > > > > > > What? > > > > > > > > We didn't have a welfare system for well over a hundred > > > years, but people > > > > didn't run wild killing each other in the streets. They > > > got jobs, or > > > > their > > > > family helped out, or their church. > > > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: Chesty Puller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 9:43 PM > > > >> To: CF-Community > > > >> Subject: Re: Next in line to be labeled Dictator by America > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> I think that Gruss doesn't realize that a country without a > > > >> welfare program is going to be run over by criminals killing > > > >> others for gain. > > > >> Case in point: > > > >> New Orleans > > > >> > > > >> - Matt > > > >> > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> From: "Dana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >> To: "CF-Community" <[email protected]> > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:56 PM > > > >> Subject: Re: Next in line to be labelled Dictator by America > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > We all make mistakes and bad choices, Gruss. Some of us > > > get penalized > > > >> > more savagely than others. By the way, from what I > > > remember, Enron > > > >> > employees were not given any option for their retirement > > > >> > account besides Enron stock. > > > >> > > > > >> > Outside of empathy though, it is generally better to > take care > > > >> > of social problems while they are small. For example. Bob > > > Doe has worked > > > >> > in the mailroom at Enron for 10 years. He is pretty good > > > at his job. > > > >> > Since he wants to send his kids to college (isn't that > > > the American > > > >> > dream?) he moonlights somewhere else. > > > >> > > > > >> > Enron goes kablooie through no fault of his own. I know > > > your scenario > > > >> > says that Bob should have gotten an MBA and a job > with another > > > >> > corporation but who is to say that this other > > > corporation would no > > > >> > thave been playing the same games with its balance > > > sheet? And he would > > > >> > be even more vulnerable there as a new hire. Anyway, so > > > Bob can't make > > > >> > his mortgage payment. Bob runs through unemployment, > > > which is still > > > >> > not enough to make the mortgage payment though it does > > > put food on the > > > >> > table (Bob being a proud sort does not want to apply for > > > food stamps). > > > >> > > > > >> > Eventually Bob loses the house and we have Bob and his > > > wife and his > > > >> > kids now NEED food stamps. Except that this does not get > > > them into > > > >> > housing and they do the shelter system for a couple of > > > years waiting > > > >> > for subsidized housing to come available. Meanwhile, > > > the kids wind up > > > >> > at the crappiest of public schools and learn that the > > > grownup world is > > > >> > both arbitrary and stupid. Frustrated, they turn to > drugs and > > > >> > delinquency. > > > >> > > > > >> > Total costs under this scenario are far higher than they > > > would have > > > >> > been if Bob had gotten some job coaching and maybe a > > > low-cost loan to > > > >> > help with his mortgage payment in time for it to do him > > > some good. > > > >> > Sure, if he had gotten himself an MBA and a cool new job > > > with Arthur > > > >> > Anderson he might not be there (wait a minute).... but then > > > >> > again there would always be a mailroom clerk at > Enron, see my point? > > > >> > > > > >> > Dana > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > On 1/10/06, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> >> > Dana wrote: > > > >> >> > I'll agree with everything you say except granny dying in > > > >> >> > the street. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Here's my problem with that: granny used to be 20 and > > > clearly made > > > >> >> some bad decisions to get to the point you're talking > > > about. You have > > > >> >> to take a step back and ask, "Is it government's role > > > to subsidize > > > >> >> people's mistakes?" > > > >> >> > > > >> >> So, for example, should the guy who lost all of his > > > retirement because > > > >> >> he put it all into ENRON get a "do over" on the tax > > > payer coin? I > > > >> >> say no. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> I'd much rather see the majority of that money put into > > > empowerment > > > >> >> programs like education than I would want to see it > > > >> >> subsidizing people's mistakes. (yes, yes, the education > > > >> >> system is > > > broken. So we > > > >> >> fix it via privatization :) > > > >> >> > > > >> >> In reality, however, no matter how good your > > > empowerment programs are > > > >> >> you're always going to have a few problems: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> 1.) People that can't compete due to birth (special needs). > > > >> >> 2.) People that can't compete due to consequences (drug > > > >> >> addicts, > > > >> >> alcoholics) > > > >> >> 3.) People that, no matter how much you empower them, > > > will still fail. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> So you need to shore up those holes. But not before you > > > >> >> empower people by telling them they're on their own. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:191620 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
