As her employer, if it is interfering with her job as a teacher, you sure do.
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 4:48 PM Subject: RE: Religious Freedom > Let's change Mrs. Smith's religion to Judaism, because I think you're not > focusing on the issue I'm raising. > > Do you have a right to infringe on Mrs. Smith's right to preach Judaism, if > she felt ordered by God to do so, because you don't want to hear it? > > H. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 4:17 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: Religious Freedom > > > I'm Jewish. I pay taxes. Someone else is Christian. They pay taxes. > Money does not care what religion it comes from. It's money. I don't > want my money going to a Christian thing that'll try and go "to the Jews > first". A Christian does not want their money going to converting their > followers to another religion. So we now need a common ground. That > common ground is respect for each other and the leaving out of religion > from the interaction. > My right not to hear in someone in any place paid for by group taxes > DOES trump that of someone who wants to use such a place to infringe on > me. > If Mrs. Smith has to evangelize at every opportunity then she can do so > at his home, at a place that is public and not paid for by taxes or a > place set aside for that. Let me put this in perspective. A subway > walkway is a public place. A missionary has every right to proselytize > there as long as he does not interfere with the movement of people. I > have the right to debate and cause that missionary to have a mental > collapse just as much as he has the right to spew his ideas at me. > The question is space. I can walk away and he can run. In a class no one > can walk away. In a school your 'trapped'. And if she feels trapped by > the fires of hell then she can just quit. A student can't. > Yes, I happen to hate missionaries. Yes I debate Jews for jesus and > cause them to publicly cry. If they come to tell me that thousands of > years of tradition and belief is wrong then I'm ok with telling them > that their lives are worthless and that they need to stop. > That's the problem. Give a person a podium and you draw counter > speakers. Don't limit their speech in some way and all speech is > allowed. If someone starts saying how we're all going to hell and > America has to be destroyed, is that protected? If so, can someone else > do a counter speech. And on and on and on till the hate flows, the > fights start and the wars are on. There has to be limits and controls. > Otherwise, Microsoft wins. :) > > > > Michael: > > > > This still doesn't answer my basic question. > > > > You're religion says "don't force it on others," but what if Mrs. > Smith > > follows a religion that says, "you must evangelize at every > opportunity"? > > > > The constitution guarantees a right to free exercise of religion. If > Mrs. > > Smith's belief in God commands her to be a public school teacher and > > evangelize from behind the podium, what is there within the > Constitution > > that says she can't? She feels just as captive as the students. She > feels > > the fiery pits of hell await if she doesn't do it. > > > > Does your right not to hear it trump her right to say it? > > > > H. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 2:01 PM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: Re: Religious Freedom > > > > > > I haven't been following much of this thread but I have to say one > > thing. Your right to exercise your religion is based on it not > > infringing on the rights of others. A teacher is paid to teach. > Period, > > end of story. If I had to put up with a missionary in public school > I'd > > have walked out. Of course, a student can't do that. It's a captive > > audience. > > Your religion is your own. Don't force it on others. At least that's > > what my religion says. > > > > > I'm not saying what I believe. I'm asking the question: Why isn't > this > > an > > > infringement of the teacher's rights to exercise his or her religion > > freely. > > > By preventing the teacher from that exercise you are asking the > > teacher to > > > disobey God (per the scenario I drafted). Should the government be > > able to > > > force a person to disobey God? If so, what is the constitutional > > argument > > > for such as case when the First Amendment says clearly that we have > a > > right > > > to freely follow our religious beliefs as we see fit? > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Beth Fleischer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 1:01 PM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: Re: Religious Freedom > > > > > > > > > So, as a teacher I should be able to teach the children whatever > > religion I > > > choose in the classroom? > > > > > > Its the teachers job to present the cirriculum, not to preach > > religion. The > > > teacher is wrong in two ways: > > > 1) not performing duties in their job description (presenting > > cirriculum) > > > and > > > 2) infringing on the religious rights of the students > > > > > > > > > Do you really believe a teacher should be allowed to attempt to > > convert > > > students to their religion as part of teaching practices? > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 10:38 PM > > > Subject: RE: Religious Freedom > > > > > > > > > > Which would be a violation of the teacher's First Amendment rights > > to > > > > exercise religious freedom. > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Beth Fleischer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 9:05 PM > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > Subject: Re: Religious Freedom > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 1:59 PM > > > > Subject: RE: Religious Freedom > > > > > > > > > > > > > What if, as a public school teacher, you felt called (an > > vocation), as > > > in > > > > > commanded by God, to be both a public school teacher and > > evangelist. > > > That > > > > if > > > > > you were not a public school teacher, and that if you did not > read > > from > > > > the > > > > > Bible during class, you would be going against God's will? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then you should be fired. > > > > > > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 1:40 PM > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > Subject: Re: Religious Freedom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >So, if you are a teacher, or a mayor or other government > > official, are > > > > you > > > > > >not sinning if you do not use every opportunity to spread the > > Gospel. > > > As > > > > a > > > > > >teacher, aren't you commanded by God to spread the Gospel to > your > > > pupils? > > > > > > > > > > But as a teacher, you are paid to teach what the school system > has > > > > provided > > > > > for you to teach, if you don't like it, go teach at a church > > school. > > > > > > > > > > >This, of course, is an extreme position that is terribly > > politically > > > > > >incorrect, but I'm sort of playing the devil's advocate here. > > > > > > > > > > > >Isn't it a violation of your "free exercise" rights if you are > > > prohibited > > > > > >from preaching, praying and proselytizing no matter what your > > position > > > in > > > > > >the government? > > > > > > > > > > No, as your position is voluntary, usually by both parties, you > > are > > > > allowed > > > > > to leave, or be fired if you are not doing your job, and if your > > job > > > says > > > > > don't teach religion in your class, then you can't. If you have > a > > > problem > > > > > with this, find another job. > > > > > > > > > > >Another question: If the government makes a law that says, > "Thou > > shalt > > > > not > > > > > >pray in public," isn't the government showing a preference for > > > > irreligion, > > > > > >if not secular humanism. Even a secularist is taking a > religious > > > position > > > > > >based on faith (it takes as much faith not to believe as to > > believe). > > > So, > > > > > >when the government says, "no prayer," it's really > "establishing > > > > religion" > > > > > >by establishing irreligion as the religion of choice for the > > > government. > > > > > >True or not? > > > > > I would agree with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ Your ad could be here. 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