> Cam wrote:
> They BOTH
> require more energy to refine than they actually output when used.
> The argument is mainly which loses more...
>

The real problem with energy is storing and transferring it.  So, to
your earlier point, it's no problem if it takes 2kWh of solar energy
to be able to store and tranfer 1kWh because the Sun is unlimited (to
us) energy.

More specifically, that 2kWh may be available at the point of
collection but everyone can't walk around with an acre of solar cells
on their back.

Back to ethanol and biodiesel, if you have solar powered combines to
harvest the crops and used wind powered electricity to process it into
fuel, who cares?  You've now got a renewable and therefore infinite
energy supply.

The constraint there, however, is land.  This is where pebble-bed
nukes might come in handy.

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