I will always have a soft spot in my heart for you Michael, because you like big butts, yes.
--Beth, Pseudo usenet cop Merlin MTB, BikeE AT, RANS gliss, Trek R200, Kickbike Owned by Kavik (Samoyed Boy) and Toklat (Keeshond Boy) Anchorage, Alaska ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:40 AM Subject: Re: Dodgeball and Sexism > Apology accepted. > > <offers muffin> > > It's not that we think you are ANTI-Christian, we just think that you > HATE Christians. Men aren't dominant over you we're just better at > every thing else than women! wink wink---> ;-) <---wink wink. > > Yeah, we get those days when we just seem to be on the opposite side of > everything. Don't worry, we still love you and still like them big ole > butts ;-) > > Michael Corrigan > Programmer > Endora Digital Solutions > 1900 S. Highland Avenue, Suite 200 > Lombard, IL 60148 > 630/627-5200 x-136 > 630/627-5255 Fax > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BethF > To: CF-Community > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 11:30 AM > Subject: Re: Dodgeball and Sexism > > > I don't feel particularly polite today after being accused of being > anti-christian and being told men are dominant over me, but you are > correct > michael, it was inappropriate and I apologize. My temper is getting > the > best of me today. > > --Beth, Pseudo usenet cop > Merlin MTB, BikeE AT, RANS gliss, Trek R200, Kickbike > Owned by Kavik (Samoyed Boy) and Toklat (Keeshond Boy) > Anchorage, Alaska > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:04 AM > Subject: Re: Dodgeball and Sexism > > > > I'd appreciate it if you could find a way to disagree politely. I > don't > > really appreciate being called a schmuck for any reason, let alone > for > > disagreeing about a stupid childhood game. If you can't conduct a > civil > > discussion, then maybe you should refrain. Passion about a certain > > topic is one thing, but once you start calling people derogatory > names, > > then you have crossed a line. You can respond if you wish, but I am > > done with this thread. > > > > Michael Corrigan > > Programmer > > Endora Digital Solutions > > 1900 S. Highland Avenue, Suite 200 > > Lombard, IL 60148 > > 630/627-5200 x-136 > > 630/627-5255 Fax > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: BethF > > To: CF-Community > > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:52 AM > > Subject: Dodgeball and Sexism > > > > > > I played rugby for several years before my knees went out, so you > are > > being > > sexist. I have no kids and no man is dominant over me. In fact, > > saying > > that men are more dominant is one of the most sexist statements I > have > > ever > > heard in my entire life. Men aren't more dominant they just > enjoy > > hurting > > each other more than women do, generally. I wouldn't necesarily > say > > this is > > a quality I admire in them. > > > > I have a brother who is mild mannered, terrible at sports and got > the > > crap > > kicked out of him in bombardment. He didn't have the skills nor > the > > inclination to kick back. In the school we went to it wasn't > > respected that > > my brother had incredible grades, was probably the brightest kid > in > > school > > (he got one question incorrect on his SAT's - he is very bright) - > the > > only > > thing that mattered was that he was lousy at sports. > > > > I actually enjoyed both dodgeball and bombardment, but I think its > an > > inappropriate game for gym class, really - the object is to hurt > other > > kids. > > We should teach our kids that hurting other kids is wrong. > > > > Now, I know this is going to spiral into another argument about > how > > you > > schmucks think we should teach our children to do whatever it > takes to > > get > > on top, including hurting and stepping on others, because what > really > > matters is winning - but I think to teach our kids this does them > and > > the > > rest of the world a grave disservice. > > > > > > --Beth, Pseudo usenet cop > > Merlin MTB, BikeE AT, RANS gliss, Trek R200, Kickbike > > Owned by Kavik (Samoyed Boy) and Toklat (Keeshond Boy) > > Anchorage, Alaska > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 1:12 PM > > Subject: RE: Church and State > > > > > > > Well, that's the whole premise of football. Knock the living > sh** > > out of > > > the person carrying the ball until he doesn't want to get back > up. > > The > > > problem is that people, like a previous post said, want to make > > > everybody equal - It will never happen. Kids need to be > challenged > > and > > > learn to take defeat and learn to win. > > > > > > DISCLAIMER - I'M NOT BEING SEXIST: It is interesting though that > a > > lot > > > of women might have a problem with this because women are > naturally > > > motherly, nurturing and always watching after their young. > Whereas > > men > > > tend to be more dominant and would enjoy a rough game like dodge > > ball > > > where you can peg someone in the head with a ball. I think it's > just > > the > > > natural order of things. Do you have any brothers Beth? > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: BethF [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 3:18 PM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: Re: Church and State > > > > > > > > > Challenged sure! But a game whose premise is to hit other folks > as > > hard > > > as > > > possible with a ball isn't what I would call challenging, its > what i > > > would > > > call unsportsmanlike. > > > > > > --Beth, Pseudo usenet cop > > > Merlin MTB, BikeE AT, RANS gliss, Trek R200, Kickbike > > > Owned by Kavik (Samoyed Boy) and Toklat (Keeshond Boy) > > > Anchorage, Alaska > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 8:27 AM > > > Subject: Re: Church and State > > > > > > > > > > Dodge ball is not used to make geeky kids feel geekier and > > athletic > > > kids > > > > feel superior. It's a game that gives kids exercise and helps > > them > > > with > > > > eye hand coordination not to mention have a little fun. It > also > > > teaches > > > > kids how to work as a team in order to achieve a common goal. > It > > > > teaches kids how to deal with failure and also how to win > humbly. > > > These > > > > are important life lessons for kids to learn. You would > actually > > be > > > > doing those kids that you consider geeky a disservice. > Extending > > your > > > > logic, maybe the schools should lower their standards so that > dumb > > > kids > > > > aren't made to feel dumber and smart kids superior and higher > > > standards > > > > of education should not be encouraged by teachers. Music > programs > > > > should be cut because some kids aren't musically inclined and > in > > order > > > > to save them from shame, we should not encourage such things. > Cut > > art > > > > classes because some kids can't even draw a stick figure. > Kids > > need > > > to > > > > be challenged. Absurd. > > > > > > > > Michael Corrigan > > > > Programmer > > > > Endora Digital Solutions > > > > 1900 S. Highland Avenue, Suite 200 > > > > Lombard, IL 60148 > > > > 630/627-5200 x-136 > > > > 630/627-5255 Fax > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: BethF > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 11:14 AM > > > > Subject: Re: Church and State > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with most of what you have said below - if someone > isn't > > > > comfortable > > > > with another persons religious acts, its just too bad. > > > > > > > > However, I disagree about dodge ball - any game which is > used to > > > make > > > > geeky > > > > kids feel geekier and athletic kids feel superior shouldn't > be > > > > encouraged by > > > > teachers, IMO. > > > > > > > > --Beth, Pseudo usenet cop > > > > Merlin MTB, BikeE AT, RANS gliss, Trek R200, Kickbike > > > > Owned by Kavik (Samoyed Boy) and Toklat (Keeshond Boy) > > > > Anchorage, Alaska > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:46 PM > > > > Subject: RE: Church and State > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting you should touch on the "comfortable issue." > I > > was > > > just > > > > > thinking about this earlier today and how this is one > variable > > we > > > > haven't > > > > > touched on this discussion. > > > > > > > > > > The great liberal commandment: "Thou shalt not make > another > > person > > > > > uncomfortable." That's B.S. > > > > > > > > > > There is no guarantee, not in the constitution, not in > nature, > > not > > > > in the > > > > > normal course of human interaction that you will always > feel > > > > comfortable. > > > > > Education, by its very nature, is discomforting. > > > > > > > > > > One of the most ridiculous things I've read about recently > is > > > > schools > > > > > banning that age-old school yard game, dodge ball. They > ban > > it > > > > because, > > > > > gosh darn it, some kids just aren't good at it. Well, I > > wasn't > > > the > > > > best > > > > > athlete in elementary school and was often picked last for > > teams. > > > > And > > > > while > > > > > I couldn't dodge the ball very well, I sure could throw it > > > (learning > > > > to > > > > > throw was a skill my dad taught me early, thankfully). It > was > > > always > > > > a > > > > great > > > > > feeling of accomplishment when I threw the ball and hit > one of > > the > > > > kids > > > > who > > > > > were among those who teased me. It was a legal and > > > unchallengeable > > > > chance > > > > > for revenge. Furthermore, many of the greatest Americans, > > > > politicians and > > > > > business leaders, were kids who were not the toughest in > > school, > > > or > > > > the > > > > most > > > > > skilled. They were nerds, often. Yet, being teased, being > made > > > > > uncomfortable, made them stronger, and they often by > passed > > the > > > > "cool" > > > > kids > > > > > by the time they became adults. > > > > > > > > > > In uncomfort, sometimes life's greatest lessons are > learned. > > > Instead > > > > of > > > > > teaching kids that nobody has a right to make them feel > > > > uncomfortable, we > > > > > need to teach them that they need to grow a thicker skin. > > > > > > > > > > Because religion makes someone uncomfortable is a very > poor > > reason > > > > to keep > > > > > religion out of schools. Religion is one of the most > > fundamental > > > > aspects > > > > of > > > > > life. It informs our entire history. Much of our classic > > > literature > > > > is > > > > > nearly unintelligible without an understanding of Western > > > religious > > > > > traditions. Instead of teaching children that religion is > > > something > > > > evil > > > > > and should be left unsaid, pushed into a corner and > dismissed > > as > > > > irrelevant, > > > > > maybe we should teach them about tolerance and acceptance > of > > > > religious > > > > > belief. That's probably the best reason, because all of > the > > legal > > > > and > > > > > constitutional ones, for making sure some accommodations > are > > made > > > > for > > > > > religion on our school grounds. > > > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:59 PM > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > Subject: RE: Church and State > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >That is why there are churches too. > > > > > > > > > > But the students don't go to the same church, they do go > to > > the > > > same > > > > school. > > > > > > > > > > > > A teacher can use their room for a group, like the > drama > > club > > > > and that > > > > > > > doesn't bother you, but if it is a religious club, you > > just > > > > > > > happen to want > > > > > > > to study in that room. > > > > > > > > > > > >What? This is a flawed argument. Religion is highly > volatile. > > You > > > > totally > > > > > >missed my point in the email. > > > > > > > > > > I don't think I missed your point. You think that groups > > should be > > > > allowed > > > > > to use the school so long as they are not limited to > people of > > a > > > > certain > > > > > religion. But then you said "But my point is that I may > want > > to go > > > > there > > > > to > > > > > study or whatever." > > > > > > > > > > So you are saying that groups who only allow people of a > > certain > > > > religion > > > > > to join don't keep you from studying. But others don't? > Also > > the > > > > school > > > > > provides facilities made specifically for students to > study, > > it is > > > > mandated > > > > > to be quite, and there are ample research tools to use. > > > > > > > > > > >No big deal. Not a Christian argument anyway, it is a > > religious > > > > one. > > > > > >Religion should be kept out of public areas payed for by > all > > of > > > our > > > > tax > > > > > >dollars from people from all denominations (and no > > > denominations). > > > > I do > > > > not > > > > > >want anyone, anywhere, to be made to feel uncomfortable > by > > people > > > > > practicing > > > > > >there faith in a public area, for whatever reason and > > whatever > > > > faith. It > > > > > >seems simple enough to just use a church for this. > > > > > > > > > > Groups use school facilities all the time. The private > > catholic > > > > school > > > > > plays basketball against the public school in school > > facilities. > > > Is > > > > there > > > > > anything wrong with this? > > > > > > > > > > So what you are saying, Religious groups can't use park > > > facilities, > > > > > schools, community centers, or the like if they show up as > a > > > group? > > > > The > > > > > people pay taxes just like the rest of us, why keep them > from > > > using > > > > their > > > > > facilities? So for churches that don't have any open lawn > want > > to > > > > hold a > > > > > picnic at the local park and they call to reserve a > shelter, > > they > > > > should > > > > be > > > > > denied? That seems like they are being denied the right to > > > assemble. > > > > > > > > > > I am sick of the idea that people should go out of there > way > > to > > > make > > > > you > > > > > comfortable. So what. If you aren't comfortable seeing a > > Moslem > > > stop > > > > and > > > > > pray when the time comes, even if he just happens to be > > walking > > > down > > > > the > > > > > street, then that is your problem, not mine or anybody > else's. > > You > > > > seeing > > > > > that makes you that uncomfortable, then get a grip, we are > a > > > divers > > > > > society, we should be glad people do that and are not > > ridiculed. > > > To > > > > hide > > > > > things like this takes away from one of the great > abilities of > > > this > > > > country. > > > > > > > > > > We are different, many cultures, many people, living their > > lives > > > in > > > > peace, > > > > > nobody feeling out of place. If we could open our eyes, > and > > see > > > that > > > > just > > > > > because this person pray at dusk, this person prays at > dawn, > > and > > > > this > > > > > person doesn't pray, that we are still people, and we can > be > > > > friends, and > > > > > we can respect each other. Differences of faith or opinion > > should > > > > not keep > > > > > people from being comfortable. > > > > > > > > > > If you are uncomfortable seeing people go about their > lives, > > then > > > > stay at > > > > > home and close the blinds. While you have the right to go > > about > > > your > > > > lives, > > > > > the rest of us have the right to go about ours. We should > not > > out > > > of > > > > our > > > > > way to hide our differences, we should go out of our way > to > > > > celebrate > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > I don't care about Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell, If you > have > > > read > > > > what I > > > > > said in many other posts, I am not a Christian, I am an > > agnostic. > > > If > > > > you > > > > > would look beyond your general dislike for people with > faith, > > you > > > > would > > > > see > > > > > that they are people too. If one person would allow one > group > > > > access, but > > > > > not another, then that is wrong, as matter of fact it is > > illegal. > > > > > > > > > > If you read the first Amendment to the Constitution it > states: > > > > > "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of > > > religion, > > > > or > > > > > prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the > > freedom of > > > > speech, > > > > > or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to > > assemble, > > > > and to > > > > > petition the Government for a redress of grievances." > > > > > > > > > > This to me says that any law passed that has any thing to > do > > with > > > > religion > > > > > is unconstitutional. It also states that people have the > right > > to > > > > assemble > > > > > so long as they don't cause any trouble. > > > > > > > > > > You can't deny a group use of public facilities because it > > might > > > > cause a > > > > > problem. This would be like arresting somebody for just > saying > > > hello > > > > to a > > > > > prostitute. You can't do it. There must first be a crime, > then > > > deal > > > > with > > > > > it. If you feel a problem might occur, make the group pay > for > > > > additional > > > > > security. That is what the KKK does when they get on the > court > > > house > > > > steps > > > > > in cities around the country. They preach hate, they want > to > > cause > > > > violence > > > > > and hatred, and they scream it from the most public place > of > > all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ Macromedia ColdFusion 5 Training from the Source Step by Step ColdFusion http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201758474/houseoffusion Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
