On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Gruss wrote: >> RoMunn wrote: >> Saying Obama is a socialist is not an emotional argument, it is an >> argument supported by hard facts that you can't manage to acknowledge. >> > > Obama is not advocating "state or collective (i.e. public) ownership > and administration of the means of production and distribution of > goods and services"; even if we agree that he'd like to nationalize > healthcare, he still wouldn't be advocating collective control of the > production of the service, nor the complete distribution, only a > portion.
And if you actually read my posts you would see that I noted previously (in the post with the definition of socialism on Wikipedia) that Obama is not a traditional socialist in the planned economy sense, but he is in fact an economic socialist, someone who will punish success (and therefore competition) with punitive taxes that he would use to fund socialist undertakings like centralized government health care. He favors a collective system funded by punishing success. But what happens when punitive tax rates drive tax receipts down, because that is exactly what will occur. Obama has no answer for that question. Socialists never do. > Your contention that Wall Street is just minding their own business > making money is utter crap. They're borrowing tax payer money, > investing it completely ridiculous investments, losing enough to > implode the economy, but walking away with the underlying assets while > leaving you stuck with the debt. First, the economy hasn't imploded. The level of drama being played up over the economy is practically operatic. Second, the people who actually gambled away all that money were mortgage brokers on the ground who pushed through loans they knew would never be fulfilled, realtors who convinced people to buy homes they couldn't afford, and speculators who made property-flipping an industry. They bear as much responsibility as anyone for this mess. > Wall Street essentially just took all of the money out of your bank > account, bought some champagne, barfed, and is now recovering from > their hang over on your nickle. That's called "theft" not capitalism. Actually, I did quite well in the housing market, so I have nothing to complain about there. > Why do you think Bear was essentially bailed out? Why do you think > the gov't had to step in to protect Fannie & Freddie? Why do you > think banks are collapsing? The same reason a bunch of companies went tits up back in 2000 and 2001 - everyone got greedy. Everyone is now being bailed out- home owners, lenders, investment bankers, mutual funds. The entire system is being bailed out, and by both political parties. Yet somehow Obama is going to change that? He will make it worse by effectively giving the Democrats in Congress a rubber stamp to pass whatever anti-capitalist legislation they want. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:264782 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
