On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I don't agree with you guys AT ALL on this point and further I think
> it's dangerous to think that way.


I know you don't.


>
> The thought that America is some type of immutable foundation is just
> not case.  If Bush's presidency didn't show you that then I'm very
> afraid.


Bush's presidency reminded me that even when we do all we can to destroy it,
our system is so strong that not only do we survive, but we come out that
much better on the other end.....enter Obama.

In my opinion our country was on the verge of losing all of the
> freedom and liberties your statement takes for granted.


No, it wasn't. Yes, what Bush did was awful.....but you know what? It's
going to be slowly undone. That's the beauty of our system.

Railing against what Bush was doing was warranted, but pretending that he
could or was about to collapse what we've built in 200+ years...was
poppycock :)

In other words, we made the right choice this time but we made the
> wrong choice 2 times in a row and it cost us.  The Justice Department
> is in tatters, frankly.  It may take 20 years to fix.  The Bush
> presidency shook our democracy to it's foundations starting with the
> Supreme Court taking an active role in his election.


Everything shakes our democracy....Obama's election shakes our democracy. It
shakes, it never breaks.


> Democracy and liberty are always in jeopardy and vigilance is key to
> ensuring they aren't overthrow.


I agree with you here, but I don't see vigilance ever disappearing from the
American landscape.

IMO, we've come closer to losing them in the last 8 years than since
> the civil war.


Perhaps, but "closer" is not the same as "close". If I take one step east,
I'm "closer" to New York City....but I aint exactly close.

You take your freedoms and liberties, "America", for granted at your own
> peril.


There is a huge difference in recognizing the genius and stability of a
system, and taking that system for granted.

In fact, it is in recognizing what makes that system great, that you achieve
the vigilance to ensure it remains as such.

-- 
I'm only one, but not alone
My finest day, is yet unknown


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