Seconded.

Ralio enterprise wide is where it's at..

http://twitter.com/#!/pud/status/1788251045

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Larry C. Lyons <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I have to disagree with you about the licensing issue. Both Railo and
> Open BlueDragon are enterprise ready application servers, as capable
> as Adobe CF. Since you can download them as WAR files, its not
> difficult to deploy them to multiple JBoss or Tomcat servers and
> clusters.
>
> While the community server edition of PHP is free, the enterprise Zend
> Server's cost is more akin to Adobe CF Enterprise edition. Given the
> performance costs of the community server under load, you need the
> Zend Server for any large scale site or one where you expect to have a
> significant load.
>
> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:35 AM, Cameron Childress <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:53 PM, PT <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I was wondering how much use CF can really handle either as a server
>>> product or middleware.  I am not talking about situations where throwing
>>> hardware at performance issues can get one by, but to the point where
>>> choosing the right middleware/application backend software can make or
>>> break an application.
>>
>>
>> Technically speaking, CF can scale very well. Virtually (or maybe
>> literally) no-one has the scale problems of Fabebook, so I would call foul
>> on the premise of this entire question. Many clients come to me claiming
>> they expect this sort of traffic, but 99.99% of them are completely full of
>> shit. One wasn't, though they still didn't even come close to Facebook on
>> scale.
>>
>> Having said that, I think that the two number one problems with scaling up
>> CF to "Facebook scale".
>>
>> First - cost. Justin already mentioned this, and it's a very valid point.
>> Scaling means lots of servers, no matter how bad-ass your platform is.  If
>> the world of PHP, there are certainly lots of costs of scaling out to a
>> bunch of servers, but the license for the PHP isn't one of them. In the CF
>> world you pay for each. Even using VMs alongside the most cost effective CF
>> licensing model, you're going to pay out the ass.
>>
>> I have no idea how many servers Facebook runs today, but in 2009 this
>> article<http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2009/10/13/facebook-now-has-30000-servers/>
>> claims
>> that they run 30k servers (surely way more by now). Assuming only a third
>> of those are PHP servers, that 10K servers. Even at 10 VMs per Enterprise
>> license, at full retain price you're talking about $7.4 million dollars
>> in licensing.  Of course, Adobe might give you a steep discount, which
>> would take the price down lower, but even at $1 million, would you pay that
>> when PHP is free?
>>
>> Really though, CF doesn't live in the Silicon Valley startup space. Sure,
>> startups use CF sometimes, but really CF lives in the corporate world, and
>> in government.  It's rare to see anything similar to FB built in CF. Pud (
>> http://pud.com/) has built a few things with it, including FuckedCompany,
>> TinyLetter, and Fandalism, but that's the exception.
>>
>> The second problem I see getting to Facebook scale is the fact that CF is
>> closed source. Sure, CF scales well, but occasionally it doesn't. For
>> example, CF8 had a huge problem with UUID generation that slows servers
>> down tremendously. In an open source software environment that would get
>> patched by the startup's engineers, even if it didn't make it back into the
>> product (though it probably would make it back in). In the world of CF,
>> however, we all had to wait till CF9 came out to see the fix.  Sure, in the
>> meantime we could all code around it, or just not use UUIDs - but why do
>> that when you could fix it yourself?
>>
>> Aside from those two issues, I think that CF scales very well.  That one
>> client I was talking about that wasn't full of shit about it's scale? When
>> Sumo Consulting helped relaunch PGA.com in 2003, it ran on 2 (TWO!!!!)
>> CF6.0 servers and managed to scale up to over 10 million pageviews/hour. We
>> made lots of technical decisions that helped achieve this, including
>> liberal use of caching servers, image farms, etc, but we did it, and this
>> was on a relatively weak V6.0 release of CF as well...
>>
>> Admittedly though, PGA.com still isn't the same problem as Facebook because
>> it has lots of generalized, non-individualized content. If we cached the
>> leaderboard for 10 seconds that represented thousands of cache hits.  That
>> made things easy. Facebook shows different stuff to each person so the
>> cache chunks are much smaller. That makes things harder.
>>
>> Having said all of the above, I really do think that Railo solves both of
>> these problems.  you can choose to license it for support. or not.  you can
>> also get into the source and patch anything you need to in order to speed
>> it up. I don't know how this will all shake out, but Pud (my Silicon Valley
>> example) has switched from CF to Railo, for the very reasons I stated above.
>>
>> So - yes it can scale, but as with any question "it depends".
>>
>> -Cameron
>>
>> --
>> Cameron Childress
>> --
>> p:   678.637.5072
>> im: cameroncf
>> facebook <http://www.facebook.com/cameroncf> |
>> twitter<http://twitter.com/cameronc> |
>> google+ <https://profiles.google.com/u/0/117829379451708140985>
>>
>>
>>
>
> 

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