Russel-

thank you.

this is exactly the kind of elaboration I was trying to 
get from the folks on the list who know more about this 
than I.

-Ben

> I must point out that many of out founding fathers were not Christian.  They 
> were deist or athiest.  Examples are Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, 
> both on the commitee that authored the Declaration of Independence.  By 
> categorizing them all as white male Christians is incorrect.
> 
> Here is the description of Deism from the History Channel web site:
> 
> "Deism, a European religious and philosophical movement, was influential in 
> eighteenth-century American thought. It described a world order based on human 
> reason rather than divine revelation. God was viewed as the "first cause" who 
> had established an ordered universe controlled by immutable laws that functioned 
> without miracles or other divine intervention. Human beings had to rely on 
> reason to know God's existence and their own moral duties. This radical 
> development in religious thought was prompted by new philosophical methods, 
> frustration with doctrinal controversies, new political and social theories, and > a 
>revolution in the empirical sciences led by Isaac Newton.
> 
> Although deism appealed to the individualism and optimism of many 
> eighteenth-century American political and social thinkers, it was popular only 
> among upper-class intellectuals. American deists ranged from the moderate 
> anticlericism, rational morality, and political liberalism of Thomas Jefferson 
> and Benjamin Franklin to the much less common militant deism of Ethan Allen and 
> Thomas Paine, who called for an abolition of traditional religion. The one 
> unifying factor in the different versions of deism was a readiness to question 
> traditional revealed religion."
> 
> Another point of trivia is that Ethan Allen was considered the most profane man 
> on the continent when he was alive.  He had been run out of Boston into the 
> Green Mountains and Virginia before that.
> 
> Russel
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date: 2002/06/26 Wed PM 04:31:58 EDT
> > To: CF-Community <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: RE: RE: RE: CNN Breaking News
> > 
> > Kevin-
> > 
> > that's a very good point (about God in this document).
> > 
> > Would be willing to bet that the group of predominately 
> > male white Christians who made the Declaration of 
> > Independence were doing so with a certain amount of 
> > emotion - "impel" is the word they used, so invoking God 
> > to put the most weight behind it from their perspective.
> > 
> > In fact, while they included their God, they excluded 
> > all women. Should we change that also?? ;-)
> > 
> > Am wondering if one of the folks on the list who is more 
> > scholarly than I about governmental history could reply 
> > on when the separation of church and state was written, 
> > and by which group, as compared to this document.
> > 
> > -Ben
> > 
> > > So should we change this document too so the mention of God is not
> > > officially in it.
> > > 
> > > When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people
> > > to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another,
> > > and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal
> > > station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a
> > > decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should
> > > declare the causes which impel them to the separation. 
> > > 
> > > We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
> > > that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
> > > that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > This country was founded by God Fearing people, do you think they would
> > > approve of this?  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > What about our money, In God we trust???
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Beth Fleischer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 2:44 PM
> > > To: CF-Community
> > > Subject: Re: RE: RE: CNN Breaking News
> > > 
> > > > Then guess what, you don't have to say it.  I don't agree with forcing
> > > > someone to say it, but at least stand and show respect for the 
> > > > flag and
> > > > what it represents.
> > > 
> > > The flag doesn't represent a country under god, it represents a 
> > > country.  And in our country one has the freedom to not show respect 
> > > for this country.  I am proud of that.
> > > 
> > > You are welcome to optionally say "under god" if you like, but it 
> > > shouldnt' be officially in the pledge.  
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > You turned out fine though, didn't you? ;)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Actually I turned out with a great caution for you folks who think this 
> > > country has anything to do with god on an offical level.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
______________________________________________________________________
This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for 
dependable ColdFusion Hosting.

Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists

Reply via email to