Russel- thank you.
this is exactly the kind of elaboration I was trying to get from the folks on the list who know more about this than I. -Ben > I must point out that many of out founding fathers were not Christian. They > were deist or athiest. Examples are Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, > both on the commitee that authored the Declaration of Independence. By > categorizing them all as white male Christians is incorrect. > > Here is the description of Deism from the History Channel web site: > > "Deism, a European religious and philosophical movement, was influential in > eighteenth-century American thought. It described a world order based on human > reason rather than divine revelation. God was viewed as the "first cause" who > had established an ordered universe controlled by immutable laws that functioned > without miracles or other divine intervention. Human beings had to rely on > reason to know God's existence and their own moral duties. This radical > development in religious thought was prompted by new philosophical methods, > frustration with doctrinal controversies, new political and social theories, and > a >revolution in the empirical sciences led by Isaac Newton. > > Although deism appealed to the individualism and optimism of many > eighteenth-century American political and social thinkers, it was popular only > among upper-class intellectuals. American deists ranged from the moderate > anticlericism, rational morality, and political liberalism of Thomas Jefferson > and Benjamin Franklin to the much less common militant deism of Ethan Allen and > Thomas Paine, who called for an abolition of traditional religion. The one > unifying factor in the different versions of deism was a readiness to question > traditional revealed religion." > > Another point of trivia is that Ethan Allen was considered the most profane man > on the continent when he was alive. He had been run out of Boston into the > Green Mountains and Virginia before that. > > Russel > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Date: 2002/06/26 Wed PM 04:31:58 EDT > > To: CF-Community <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: RE: RE: RE: CNN Breaking News > > > > Kevin- > > > > that's a very good point (about God in this document). > > > > Would be willing to bet that the group of predominately > > male white Christians who made the Declaration of > > Independence were doing so with a certain amount of > > emotion - "impel" is the word they used, so invoking God > > to put the most weight behind it from their perspective. > > > > In fact, while they included their God, they excluded > > all women. Should we change that also?? ;-) > > > > Am wondering if one of the folks on the list who is more > > scholarly than I about governmental history could reply > > on when the separation of church and state was written, > > and by which group, as compared to this document. > > > > -Ben > > > > > So should we change this document too so the mention of God is not > > > officially in it. > > > > > > When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people > > > to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, > > > and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal > > > station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a > > > decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should > > > declare the causes which impel them to the separation. > > > > > > We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, > > > that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, > > > that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. > > > > > > > > > This country was founded by God Fearing people, do you think they would > > > approve of this? > > > > > > > > > What about our money, In God we trust??? > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Beth Fleischer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 2:44 PM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: Re: RE: RE: CNN Breaking News > > > > > > > Then guess what, you don't have to say it. I don't agree with forcing > > > > someone to say it, but at least stand and show respect for the > > > > flag and > > > > what it represents. > > > > > > The flag doesn't represent a country under god, it represents a > > > country. And in our country one has the freedom to not show respect > > > for this country. I am proud of that. > > > > > > You are welcome to optionally say "under god" if you like, but it > > > shouldnt' be officially in the pledge. > > > > > > > > > > > You turned out fine though, didn't you? ;) > > > > > > > > > Actually I turned out with a great caution for you folks who think this > > > country has anything to do with god on an offical level. > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. 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