: This goes out to Atheists... Well, I used to be agnostic (and still fall in the "miscellaneous" category) so I'll give it a shot.
: This is not flame bait, just out of curiosity. right :-) : (Athiests) have yet to even speculate or even remotely conceive where the : particles from the big bang might have come from (if you have : please let me : know). The particles from the big bang coalesced from the super-massive amount of energy the big bang released. Remember, if you can get energy out of matter (remember Albert Eienstein?) you can reverse the process, because all natural processes (chemical reactions, nuclear reactions) are reversable given a sufficient amount of properly applied energy. Now, you ask, where did the energy come from? My two personal favorite theories are the previous big crunch or the creation of a "bubble" universe. The first assumes that we are just one universe in a chain of expanding and contracting universes. Eventually, our universe will collapse, all of the particles will come together, disintegrate into pure energy, and blow up again. So when was the first one? You assume there was a first one. Time as we know and love it stops working at singularity points, and the big bang/big crunch certainly qualifies. Maybe it's the same bang/crunch repeating, or some finite number that form a circle. Or maybe it's a concept that we 3-D thinkers can't really wrap our heads around. The second theory has to do with the nature of space and gravity. More on this below. : But do you ever think about where space itself came from? You see, 2 : fundamental things exist here: SOMETHING (matter and all things : related to : matter), and NOTHING (space where all matter resides. Think of space as a : container. Without it, where will matter be? Do you guys ever : think about : how space came to be, rather than particles? Um, no. Space isn't nothing. Space can be bent by gravity (which is why gravity works). Space as we know it is a continuous curve in n dimensions (the number is debateable) which contains all matter and energy in the universe. If you bend space enough, in theory you could "twist off" a bubble universe. Let's picture space in 2-d: the surface of one of those balloons that people make animals out of. We exist on the inside surface of the balloon. It is a closed continuous 2-D surface existing through a 3rd dimension. Step it up a bit to get the real world. Anyway, if you make a twist in the balloon, trapping air on either side (and pretend that the twist is self-sealing) you now have two continuous 2-D surfaces existing through the third dimension. If you cut through the twist (the baloons are still sealed) you have two separate universes that are only connected through the fourth dimension -- time. Now, let's think of space as a super-rubbery substance. It is, as far as we know, infinitely deformable. Therefore, each of these new "balloon" universes is topologically equivalent to each other. We can twist off new universes as often as we want. And where was the starting universe? See my argument about the first big bang above -- when we're working in n dimensions things get screwy. : The only thing I can come up with is God. Or at least, some supernatural : power. Okay, define supernatural. By it's etymology, I'd say it means "more than nature" -- which implies that it is a force over and above nature. Okay, now we have to define nature. I don't understand all the rules. When you can combine gravity and quantum theory in an equation set that can be understood by mere mortals, I'll let you define supernatural. Arthur C. Clarke is famous for saying <paraphrase>Any technology, sufficiently advanced, will seem like magic</paraphrase>. I never get the quote exactly right, but that's close. It means that no matter how smart Sir Isaac Newton was, he'd have never gotten the TV, much less the PC. So just because /you/ don't understand how the universe started doesn't mean that something (either in or out of this universe) doesn't and /certainly/ doesn't mean that a given entity had to violate natural laws to create the universe. Which is not to deny the existance of God. I was once told that God was the power that can do anything. Well, I deny that God can do anything. I just think that God can do anything /I/ can think of. Isn't that enough? Hell, I once spent a sleepless night figuring out how, within the rules of cosmological physics as we know them, God could create a rock so big he couldn't move it. Clue: See bubble universes and think about frames of reference. Anyway, that's my long and expansive rant on the subject. Actually, I think I was rather restrained given how long I've thought about exactly this. I'm assuming you have questions about something or other I've said, but if I've frightened you off asking them, I'll understand. :-) --Ben "Bringing God to the common physicist" Doom ______________________________________________________________________ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
