(popping out of lurkdom a minute) The difference in my mind... well, first let's stipulate that I am an immigrant (legal) so I am probably biased.
But erm. Despite the ill-treatment of the Irish in the nineteenth century, their immigration was encouraged. Or at least not discouraged. There were no lotteries to see who would get in. You just got on a boat and came. US immigration policies are fairly irrational, flavored by persisting levels of the hysteria du jour. I say this as a woman who is in the process of assuring the US government that I am neither a member of the Nazi party nor a member of the communist party. Not that I am complaining. I am white and I speak English. And yes, it matters. As evidence I would like to submit the very different procedures on the Mexican and Canadian borders, and the very differing treatment of Haitians and Cubans. But, just to set a few things straight. You cannot get welfare, food stamps or federal financial aid without demonstrating your immigrations status. If it was ever possible to do so, it has not been so for many years. Most immigrants I have ever met have been extremely hardworking people. Do I advocate an open immigration policy? Reluctantly, no. I think we should favor educated English speakers. It is just that much less of a drain on our resources. However, I think that the US has probably gained by the immigration amnesties that it has had. If someone is working and productive why remove them from the economy? The sad fact is that a poor Mexican has approximately zero chance of immigrating legally. You could even make a case that getting here demonstrates a certain amount of initiative. For that matter, I considered giving up my green card at one point. One hundred percent of the Canadians I talked to about that told me that I was out of my mind and they were almost impossible to get. Dana Heald, Tim writes: > Well reasoned statement, something we don't see enough of around here :) > > My grandmother was off the boat from Ireland. Yet as you said they followed > the immigration laws in order to get here. They worked hard, learned the > language (she spoke nothing but Gaelic until she was 4 or 5), and prospered. > Today there are many negatives to allowing the standards on immigration that > were once prevalent. Terrorism, crime and abuse of the system would be > foremost on my list. I think like Kevin and Larry I would advocate > something that would allow for migrant workers to come in, but be the > responsibility of the employer. > > Tim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sandy Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 11:15 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Immigration vs Illegal Immigration was RE: The Robin Williams' > Plan > > > I think there is a difference Jim, > > Illegal immigration is just that illegal, whether its people from South > America crossing the Mexican border with Coyotes (people who for a hefty > fee, guide them in avoiding the border patrol), or people from Europe or > Australia who overstay their visitors visa. > > There is a HUGE difference between those people who immigrated here through > the process and those who don't. > > My grandparents came over in the Eastern European wave in the early 1900's. > They did so legally as so many people did at that point. Sure my > grandparents worked hard once they got here, but so do many people who are > here illegally. But there is a difference, the people who come over > illegally are just that here against the current prevailing US law. > > Coming from California, I have seen first hand how strained the system is, > providing services (such as health care and education) to people who are in > this country illegally. California tried passing a law (proposition 187)in > 1994 which specifically stopped illegal aliens (those who cannot establish > their status as a U.S. citizen, a lawful permanent resident, or an alien > lawfully admitted for a temporary period of time) from receiving medical or > other public services and education. The law passed, but you should have > seen the protests on it. Ultimately the law was "put on hold" by a federal > court, but you can imagine the frustration the people from Califonia felt > with the system (and lack of Federal controls) in order to pass it and Gov > Davis killed it outright in 1999. (Note, I'm neither advocating nor > opposing the Proposition, just reporting it). > > To me being against illegal immigration isn't a cultural bias it's the fact > that illegal immigration eats up resources. There are reasons why there are > limits on immigration worldwide. Its funny in a way, since Mexico has very > strict immigration laws for residency in Mexico > (http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/eMexImmigRegs.html#Immigrant%20Status) yet > they protested the hell out of Proposition 187. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 10:32 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: The Robin Williams' Plan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 12:48 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: Re: The Robin Williams' Plan > > > > He probably wouldn't. I just forwarded it with the subject I got. Good > to > > know > > people are paying attention and looking these things up. :) > > I particularly like part of 6, 7 and especially 9 which is quite > apparent > > with > > my stance on the UN. > > Some of it sounds "good" in a fantasy-land, fairy tale way (like "we > should all have wings, then we'd be able to fly to work!"), but most of > it just doesn't sit well with me. > > I don't know if it's coincidence or what but I've received about 20 > various "stop immigration", "all those people are on welfare" and "if > you live here learn the language" pieces in the past week or so. > > While I agree that immigration, especially illegal immigration, needs > attention this attitude frustrates me. I ask people with this opinion > where they're ancestors came from (never here) and the reasoning always > is "well, my grandparents worked for what they got, not like these > people today". > > The problem, of course, is that the SAME EXACT sentiments were leveled > against pretty much every large wave of immigrants by the > children/grandchildren of the PREVIOUS wave of immigrants. The Irish, > the Italians, the Chinese, the Dutch and Germans, etc have all been > victims and accusers. > > It's just really disheartening to know that my culture simply refuses to > learn from its past. > > Jim Davis > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
