Hi John, Which is exactly how it is in CF for 2-m air temperature or irradiance of a specified wavelength. Trac ticket 96 is aimed at providing your magical connection and could be used for taxon names.
Ever get the feeling that some of the CF discussions (e.g. ISO8601) are a case of identifying the lesser of two evils by people with different opinions on what constitutes evil? Cheers, Roy. ________________________________________ From: CF-metadata [cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of John Graybeal [grayb...@marinemetadata.org] Sent: 22 March 2013 23:52 To: Cameron-smith, Philip Cc: sdn2-t...@listes.seadatanet.org; Alessandra Giorgetti; cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu; Klaas Deneudt; 'John Maurer' Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] [sdn2-tech] RE: proposed standard names for Enterococcus and Clostridium perfringens I think the other obvious concern is that you could no longer use the standard name as the be-all and end-all of "searching for comparable data". If the entity of interest, say the species, is in an auxiliary term, the search has to magically connect the standard name with the auxiliary term, which requires more custom search capabilities than are currently widespread. On Mar 22, 2013, at 16:36, "Cameron-smith, Philip" <cameronsmi...@llnl.gov> wrote: > Hi, > > I would have no idea of what CFU was, so I suggest it be spelled out if it is > used in a std_name. > > We had a very similar discussion when atmospheric chemicals started to be > included in CF std_names. In that case it was decided to include them > one-by-one, and defer the discussion until the current system stopped > working. In defense of that decision it has worked OK: once the pattern has > been established, new std_names with different species get approved fairly > quickly. > > There were complications with doing it as you suggest. I think those > objections could have been overcome, but it would have required work and > changes to CF. I have a dream that this capability will become part of CF2.0 > someday :-). > > The two main problems that I recall were 'green dogs', ie names that would be > allowed but nonsensical (eg mass of CO2 expressed as nitrogen, or surface > area of O3), and the CF convention would need to be formally altered (and the > discussion eventually ran out of steam). > > I believe that 'green dogs' are 'red herrings', ie even if a 'green dog' is > allowed, no user would ever actually use it. Hence this is not a problem. > Changes to the CF convention seem to be going faster now, but they still take > time and effort. > > Good luck, > > Philip > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr Philip Cameron-Smith, p...@llnl.gov, Lawrence Livermore National Lab. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: CF-metadata [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of >> Alessandra Giorgetti >> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 8:42 AM >> To: sdn2-t...@listes.seadatanet.org >> Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu; Klaas Deneudt; 'John Maurer' >> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] [sdn2-tech] RE: proposed standard names for >> Enterococcus and Clostridium perfringens >> >> Dear all, >> I want to underline that also in the chemical lot, for contaminants in biota >> as an >> example, we have a similar issue like the biological one. >> We would like to keep Standard Name from the species name separated. >> So, I agree with Neil when saying >> >> 'Anyway, I would agree that the species entity needs to be separated from the >> ‘standard name’. I think discussions in SDN tech about the draft biological >> format for ODV would also highlight this as a ‘must have’.' >> >> We look forward in the discussion. >> >> With kind regards, >> Alessandra and Matteo >> >> ---------------------------------------------- >> Alessandra Giorgetti >> Istituto Nazionale di Oceanografia e di Geofisica Sperimentale-OGS Sezione di >> Oceanografia - OCE National Oceanographic Data Center/IOC - NODC Borgo >> Grotta Gigante 42/c, 34010 Sgonico, Trieste (ITALY) >> Phone: +39 040 2140391 >> Mobile: +39 320 4644653 >> Fax: +39 040 2140266 >> E-mail: agiorge...@ogs.trieste.it >> The NODC site with free data access http://nodc.ogs.trieste.it/ >> >> Il 22/03/2013 16:15, Lowry, Roy K. ha scritto: >>> Hi Klaas, >>> >>> What I was trying to say in my e-mail to CF was that I strongly suggest >>> that CF >> decouples the Standard Name from the species name. However, should they >> choose not to then the cfu semantics should be removed from the units of >> measure into the Standard Name. The example you quote is what I would >> suggest should - unfortunately in my current view - CF choose to include >> species >> names in Standard Names. >>> >>> Apologies if I didn't make this clear. >>> >>> Cheers, Roy. >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Klaas Deneudt [klaas.dene...@vliz.be] >>> Sent: 22 March 2013 15:06 >>> To: sdn2-t...@listes.seadatanet.org; 'John Maurer'; >>> cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu >>> Subject: RE: [sdn2-tech] RE: [CF-metadata] proposed standard names for >>> Enterococcus and Clostridium perfringens >>> >>> Hi, since my knowledge on standard name conventions is limited I am >>> not well placed to give input on the raised request for a new item in the >>> list. >>> >>> However I share the concern to include the biological entity in the Standard >> Name. >>> Am I wrong If I say that the suggested "cfu_number_concentration_of >> enterococcus _in_sea_water" seems to do just that? >>> >>> best regards, >>> Klaas. >>> >>> From: sdn2-tech-requ...@listes.seadatanet.org >>> [mailto:sdn2-tech-requ...@listes.seadatanet.org] On Behalf Of Neil >>> Holdsworth >>> Sent: 22 March 2013 11:42 >>> To: sdn2-t...@listes.seadatanet.org; John Maurer; >>> cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu >>> Subject: RE: [sdn2-tech] RE: [CF-metadata] proposed standard names for >>> Enterococcus and Clostridium perfringens >>> >>> Hi Roy, >>> >>> First off, i thought ICES tried to persuade you way before SDN that >>> this was perhaps not the right approach ;) >>> >>> Anyway, I would agree that the species entity needs to be separated from the >> ‘standard name’. I think discussions in SDN tech about the draft biological >> format for ODV would also highlight this as a ‘must have’. >>> >>> We did however struggle to understand entirely what you mean by having a >> separate metadata element related to species. What does the metadata >> element hang-off? If this was to be an attribute of the standard name, then I >> don’t really understand how this decouples the relationship. But if you mean >> that you would have a variable ‘Gadus morhua’ that had an attribute ‘aphiaID >> = >> xxx’ then that would be logical. >>> >>> Look forward to hearing what the intention is. >>> >>> Best, Neil >>> >>> From: sdn2-tech-requ...@listes.seadatanet.org<mailto:sdn2-tech- >> requ...@listes.seadatanet.org> [mailto:sdn2-tech- >> requ...@listes.seadatanet.org] On Behalf Of Lowry, Roy K. >>> Sent: 22. marts 2013 10:58 >>> To: John Maurer; >>> cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu<mailto:cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu> >>> Cc: >>> sdn2-t...@listes.seadatanet.org<mailto:sdn2-t...@listes.seadatanet.org >>>> >>> Subject: [sdn2-tech] RE: [CF-metadata] proposed standard names for >>> Enterococcus and Clostridium perfringens >>> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> I see Pandora's Box opening before us. I have been down the road of setting >> up my equivalent to Standard Names (the BODC Parameter Usage Vocabulary) >> with concepts that include specification of the biological entity, which is >> why I >> have a vocabulary with getting on for 30,000 concepts. So I have things like >> 'Abundance of species X','Carbon biomass of species X', 'Nitrogen biomass of >> species X', 'Average specimen length of species X' and so on. >>> >>> In recent discussions within SeaDataNet and the EU ODIP project I have been >> persuaded that this approach is unsustainable and that what we should be >> aiming for in these projects is an approach where the Standard Name >> equivalent >> is something like 'Abundance of biological entity' and then have a separate >> metadata element (i.e. variable attribute) for the biological entity that >> should be >> related an established taxonomic standard such as WoRMS >> (http://www.marinespecies.org/). So, which path should CF follow? >>> >>> An additional point is that I would prefer not to have the semantics of what >> was measured encoded into the units of measure. The way I've approached CFU >> is through concepts phrased like ' Abundance (colony-forming units) of Vibrio >> cholerae (WoRMS 395085) per unit volume of the water body' where colony- >> forming units is a qualifying semantic on abundance (the term I prefer to >> number_concentration, but I appreciate the precedent in existing Standard >> Names). So, IF we choose the path of naming the beasties in the standard >> name >> my preferred syntax would be: >>> >>> cfu_number_concentration_of enterococcus _in_sea_water with canonical >> units of m-3 as John suggested. >>> >>> I have copied this response to the SeaDataNet Technical Task Team so they >> are aware that this issue is being discussed in CF. >>> >>> Cheers, Roy. >>> >>> Please note that I now work part-time from Tuesday to Thursday. E-mail >> response on other days is possible but not guaranteed! >>> >>> From: CF-metadata [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf >>> Of John Maurer >>> Sent: 21 March 2013 20:12 >>> To: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu<mailto:cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu> >>> Subject: [CF-metadata] proposed standard names for Enterococcus and >>> Clostridium perfringens >>> >>> Aloha CF group, >>> I would like to propose the following standard names related to water >>> quality >> measurements of the bacteria Enterococcus and Clostridium perfringens: >>> >>> number_concentration_of_enterococcus_in_sea_water >>> number_concentration_of_clostridium_perfringens_in_sea_water >>> >>> These are normally measured with units of CFU/100 mL, where CFU stands for >> Colony-Forming Units<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony-forming_unit>. I >> believe the canonical units in UDUNITS parlance would translate to "m-3", >> which >> is what I find in the standard name table for other number_concentration_* >> quantities. >>> >>> For descriptions of each, I would propose: >>> >>> number_concentration_of_enterococcus_in_sea_water: >>> >>> "Number concentration" means the number of particles or other specified >> objects per unit volume. In this context, it represents the number of colony- >> forming units (CFU) of bacteria belonging to the genus Enterococcus. This >> indicator bacteria has been correlated with the presence of human pathogens >> (disease-causing organisms) and therefore with human illnesses such as >> gastroenteritis, diarrhea, and various infections in epidemiological >> studies. As >> such, it is commonly measured in beach water quality monitoring programs. >>> >>> number_concentration_of_clostridium_perfringens_in_sea_water: >>> >>> "Number concentration" means the number of particles or other specified >> objects per unit volume. In this context, it represents the number of colony- >> forming units (CFU) of bacteria belonging to the species Clostridium >> perfringens. >> Because this bacteria is a normal component of the human intestinal tract, >> its >> presence in samples of sea water can be used as a tracer of sewage >> contamination. As such, it is commonly measured in beach water quality >> monitoring programs. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> John Maurer >>> Pacific Islands Ocean Observing System (PacIOOS) University of Hawaii >>> at Manoa >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only. NERC is >>> subject >> to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the contents of this email and any >> reply you make may be disclosed by NERC unless it is exempt from release >> under >> the Act. Any material supplied to NERC may be stored in an electronic records >> management system. >>> ________________________________ >>> Denne mail er blevet scannet af http://www.comendo.com og indeholder ikke >> virus! >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only. NERC is >>> subject >> to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the contents of this email and any >> reply you make may be disclosed by NERC unless it is exempt from release >> under >> the Act. Any material supplied to NERC may be stored in an electronic records >> management system. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CF-metadata mailing list >> CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu >> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata > _______________________________________________ > CF-metadata mailing list > CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata --------------- John Graybeal Marine Metadata Interoperability Project: http://marinemetadata.org grayb...@marinemetadata.org _______________________________________________ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only. NERC is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the contents of this email and any reply you make may be disclosed by NERC unless it is exempt from release under the Act. Any material supplied to NERC may be stored in an electronic records management system. _______________________________________________ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
