Dear Dan

I don't think I have understood this. What is the field of precipitation
amount? The F(x) would actually be a 3D data variable, I think, F(x,lat,lon),
which gives the probability that precipitation is less than x at (lat,lon).
For this field, x is a 1D coord variable, not a field.

Best wishes

Jonathan


> Yes, that is what I had in mind. What slightly concerns me is that I would 
> effectively end up storing the precipitation amount twice:
> 
> - once as a data variable in its own right
> 
> - once as an auxilliary coordinate, with F(x) as the data variable
> 
> Duplication, especially within the same data archive, seems like something to 
> be avoided if possible, hence my idea to have F(x) as the auxilliary 
> coordinate variable and precipitation amount as the data variable and not 
> store F(x) as a separate data variable. Do you think that it would be 
> preferable/acceptable to store the precipitation values twice?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CF-metadata [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
> Jonathan Gregory
> Sent: 04 September 2014 14:14
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [CF-metadata] Return periods
> 
> Dear Dan
> 
> I agree with you that it would be better to store F(x) than to use your sign
> convention for return periods. However it would be fine to split the return
> periods into the two tails in different data variables and give them distinct
> standard names. We have some standard names for such things e.g.
>   
> spell_length_of_days_with_lwe_thickness_of_precipitation_amount_above_threshold
> and you could propose suitable ones.
> 
> If you store F(x), I think it would be a data variable, not a coordinate or
> ancillary variable, and it should have a standard name. I believe the guidance
> you quote is about probability distribution functions rather than cumulative
> (probability) distribution functions. Following a similar approach, however,
> we could have a standard name such as
>   cumulative_distribution_function_of_precipitation_amount
> for F(x), where x is precipitation_amount, which would be a coordinate. Is
> that what you have in mind?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from "Hollis, Dan" <[email protected]> -----
> 
> > Dear all,
> > 
> > Here is another question related to migrating our UK climate grids to 
> > NetCDF.
> > 
> > As well as grids of the monthly rainfall total (in mm) we also generate 
> > grids of the estimated return period of the rainfall total (in years). 
> > Currently these two quantities are stored in separate files (with only the 
> > file name and location to tell us they are related). I've been trying to 
> > think how to store the return period information using CF-NetCDF and would 
> > be grateful for advice.
> > 
> > Some further details:
> > 
> > Our existing grids contain the return period in years i.e. if the return 
> > period for a particular grid point is N years then this means that we 
> > estimate that the rainfall total for that grid point will be exceeded on 
> > average once every N years. This is equivalent to saying that each year 
> > there is a probability of 1/N of exceeding that rainfall amount i.e. the 
> > cummulative distribution function, F(x) = 1 - 1/N. For example, if N = 10 
> > then F(x) = 0.9. Additionally, as we are also interested in droughts, we 
> > have adopted our own convention of using negative values to refer to the 
> > left (dry) tail of the rainfall distribution. For example N = -10 is used 
> > to mean that F(x) = 0.1 i.e. we estimate that rainfall amounts *less* than 
> > the observed value will occur once every 10 years on average.
> > 
> > This use of positive and negative values to indicate return periods 
> > relating to the right (wet) and left (dry) tails is convenient but 
> > unconventional. My initial thought is that we should store F(x) itself and 
> > only convert to return period for the purposes of presentation e.g. 
> > creating maps.
> > 
> > So, how to store F(x)? The main problem is that the value to which the 
> > return period relates (i.e. the rainfall amount) varies from one grid point 
> > to another. Two possibilities occur to me, both of which involve storing 
> > F(x) alongside the rainfall total:
> > 
> > - Store F(x) as an auxilliary coordinate
> > 
> > - Store F(x) as ancillary data
> > 
> > It's not clear to me whether one is better than the other, or even whether 
> > either approach is valid.
> > 
> > The other question is what to call the F(x) values. The guidance for 
> > ancillary data says to use standard name modifiers to indicate the 
> > relationship, but there doesn't seem to be anything suitable for describing 
> > F(x).
> > 
> > The other thing I've looked at is the guidance for constructing standard 
> > names. I can't seem to locate this on the current CF web site so I've 
> > refered to the archived copy available here:
> > 
> > https://web.archive.org/web/20130728212039/http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/guidelines
> > 
> > The section on transformations includes 
> > 'probability_distribution_of_X[_over_Z]' in the list, however it's unclear 
> > to me whether this is what I need, or even how I might use it in other 
> > circumstances. The notes state:
> > 
> > "probability distribution (i.e. a number in the range 0.0-1.0 for each 
> > range of X) of variations (over Z) of X. The data variable should have an 
> > axis for X."
> > 
> > The reference to 'each range of X' is the bit I find confusing. Is the idea 
> > to store F(X1), F(X2), F(X3) etc, or is it intended to be F(X2) - F(X1), 
> > F(X3) - F(X2), F(X4) - F(X3) etc? The former doesn't quite fit the 
> > description, but the latter has the problem that the number of ranges (= 
> > the number of data values) will be one less than the number of X values. I 
> > can't see any existing names that use this transformation to use as a guide.
> > 
> > If anyone can help that would be much appreciated.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Dan
> > 
> > 
> > Dan Hollis   Climatologist
> > Met Office   Hadley Centre   FitzRoy Road   Exeter   Devon   EX1 3PB   
> > United Kingdom
> > Tel: +44 (0)1392 886780   Fax: +44 (0)1392 885681
> > E-mail: [email protected]   Website: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk
> > For UK climate and past weather information, visit 
> > http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate
> > 
> > 
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> > CF-metadata mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
> 
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----
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