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#104: Clarify the interpretation of scalar coordinate variables
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  Reporter:  jonathan        |       Owner:  [email protected]
      Type:  enhancement     |      Status:  new                          
  Priority:  medium          |   Milestone:                               
 Component:  cf-conventions  |     Version:                               
Resolution:                  |    Keywords:                               
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Comment (by jonathan):

 Dear Steve and John

 Thanks for your additions.

 Yes, as Steve says, this discussion is entirely about interpretation and
 the data model. The current text can be seen as contradictory. This ticket
 proposes to remove the ambiguity by following the text, "Scalar coordinate
 variables have the same information content and can be used in the same
 contexts as a size one coordinate variable." That follows what Steve said
 earlier, and I quoted: "Scalar coordinate variables provide a convenient
 way to encode coordinate variables of size one. They do so by borrowing
 the syntax that is otherwise used for auxiliary coordinate variables." I
 think that the definition appears to be ambiguous because there are two
 kinds of scalar coordinate variable mentioned in the CF document. There
 are numeric scalar coordinate variables, which were introduced to mean the
 same thing as size-one numeric coordinate variables, and there are string-
 valued scalar coordinate variables, and they have to be logically regarded
 auxiliary coordinate variables because string-valued coordinate variables
 are not possible in netCDF. This ticket proposes to clarify that as well.

 We do not think that ambiguity is desirable or necessary and was not
 intended. We could retain the ambiguity by creating a third class of
 coordinate (not dimension coordinate, not auxiliary coordinate) in the
 data model, as Mark argues in ticket 105. David and I think that's an
 unnecessary complexity which has not been envisaged in the design of CF up
 to now, and that it's better for data-writers to indicate what their data
 mean.

 I'd like to understand John's point but it looks like I'll have to wait
 for a week. :-) The problem I'm having with it is shown by the example
 implied in my last posting:

 {{{
 dimensions:
   station=2;
   time=NNN;
 variables:
   float lat(station);
   float lon(station);
   float time(time);
   float temp(station,time);
     temp:coordinates="lat lon";
 }}}

 This is a discrete sampling geometry with two timeseries. The data
 variable has two dimensions. John writes, "The dimensionality of the data
 indicates the dimensionality of the domain. The number of coordinates
 represents the dimensionality of the range." So what is the dimensionality
 of the data here? I think, by expressing it as a DSG, we are saying the
 data is physically one-dimensional (time). The other netCDF dimension is
 just an index, a discrete axis. If you like, you can regard lat and lon as
 a function of this index. It's like an ensemble axis, which is also not a
 physical coordinate. If this is not true, I do not understand how chapter
 9 can possibly meet John's requirement that timeseries should be regarded
 as physically one-dimensional. In my opinion, if `station=1` in the above
 example, we have the same interpretation of it. The data is still
 physically one-dimensional, though formally two-dimensional.

 In order to decide about this ticket, the CF committee has been asked to
 vote on it. So far, Nan, Roy, Russ, Martin, Rich, Karl and I have given
 support. It would be good to hear from Balaji, Philip, Bryan and Alison,
 as well as more from John and Steve, when possible.

 Best wishes

 Jonathan

-- 
Ticket URL: <https://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/trac/ticket/104#comment:63>
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