Actually, I wasn't calling for blind faith, only positive feedback and less curmudgeonism. What they're doing is paving the road that we'll all be traveling on in the future. Like it or not the internet and the desktop are on a collision course and whether it's Flash or JAVA or .NET (most likely a combination thereof) someone has to take the "tween" steps to get to the ultimate goal. I've been developing web applications that replace the need for desktop applications for years, what is really lacking isn't the server-side logic to make these things happen, it's the front-end interface that needs to mature. HTML is clunky, ugly and the browser makers can't/won't even support CSS2 fully. I wouldn't (want to) rely on HTML/IE to be the basis of the UI of the future.
As for support for file system access, that doesn't seem like much of a roadblock. You can already write fully-functional desktop applications using Flash and Flash Studio Pro (http://www.multidmedia.com). Granted these are through FSCommands, but it doesn't seem like such a stretch that Macromedia could add features similar to this into future incarnations of Flash. Honestly, I'm not real keen on the idea of relinquishing control of the future of software to Microsoft or Sun just because they've been doing it longer. Just because Macromedia as a company is relatively new to scripting languages means nothing - it's the employees of Macromedia that create the technologies we use. Just because they bought ColdFusion doesn't make it any less powerful - it's still (somewhat) the same folks working on the technology. So, actually, Macromedia has been doing "things like this" for way more than 2-3 years. I would go so far as to say they have a leg-up on other companies as they have both sides necessary to make RIA a reality - both server-side scripting and front-end UI/Design. Macromedia picked up technologies complimentary to their products and vision, I think its worth something that they have assembled and aligned technologies so well suited to one another in the inevitable push towards RIA. And what are the other folks that have been doing this stuff forever doing with RIA? Sun certainly isn't pushing JAVA in that direction and .NET is just getting started and is far less mature than Flash/ColdFusion. It seems like Macromedia is in a better position than any other to head into the future. It's a simple matter of evolution. Things change over time and it doesn't just happen one day when the software makers have finalized their technologies behind closed doors. Blind faith is a bad thing, but so is shortsightedness. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 ************************************************************************ ************* Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ************************************************************************ ************* -----Original Message----- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 3:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia.Com (The new site?) Yeah. I gotta disagree on the flash replacing traditional desktop apps. Big draw back of flash is the lacking ability of local file manipulation. Hence there is no way to upload a file via flash. So even in the most advanced RIA, if any client files are needed, you have to go back to HTML. It would be really nice to have one single language that could be used for everything from desktop apps to server side scripting. It was the goal of Java, but I think it will be accomplished by MS and their CRL approach. Flash isn't even in the realm of comparison imho. As for long load times, are we just going to disregard the studies proving that if I site doest load fast, people don't view it? I agree it's impatient and hard to believe people won't wait 30 seconds, but it's unfortunately true. By the way, if MMs site used to take 30s to load on my universities connection, I'd hate to see how long it took on 56k. Thankfully MM recognized the feedback (bitching) from our community and removed half the flash content from the site. Now it's a much more reasonable speed. If they want to move it back to a complete flash solution it's probably best to do it slowly over the course of a few years, not immediately just because they can. On the contrary, we need to be as critical as possible. Unlike HTML and other controlling technologies on the web, this one is under the sole control of one company. Not the WC3. Outside of Lingo, Macromedia didn't touch any sort of programming until about 2-3 years ago with actionScript, and they bought their server side languages. So I think it's very important and rightly so to be critical as they have never done anything like this in the past. Luckily they do seem to listen to developers, cause after all it comes down to us, whether a technology will be a success. As long as Macromedia forges new territory, expect to hear me bitching about it deficiencies. You can't expect us all to just have blind faith. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 1:55 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia.Com (The new site?) This is a snippet of a response to the ZDNet article about Macromedia.com, I thought I'd pass it along here as well ... <RANT> ... with RIA applications you will inherently have a longer load time because you're loading the entire application at once. With traditional web applications you get page-by-page loads which is faster initially, but overall I would imagine you sit and wait longer for traditional HTML pages when all is said and done. Think about it - 35 seconds to load an HTML page is slow, but to load 50 HTML pages it's pretty fast. That's what RIAs give you, the equivalent of an entire application in one page load. Most users don't complain about Microsoft Outlook taking 30 seconds to load, it's total lack of accessibility features and it's generally sluggish behavior when doing searches, etc. but when a web application doesn't load in 6 seconds and the link to the second version of the site in HTML doesn't leap out and grab your attention then everyone is up in arms. We're all accustomed to looking at application splash screens while waiting for desktop applications to load, why is it so outrageous for a web application to do the same? You have to realize, what Macromedia is doing is laying the groundwork for a whole new way to create applications, you can't expect that type of technology to be 100% from day 1. Eventually web applications will behave almost identically to desktop applications and in most cases will even replace them. I would hate to think that the future of software would be based on HTML. Flash, server-side processing and RIAs are the future of not only the web, but software as we know it. We need to be helpful and supportive of this process instead of being so critical. With support and positive feedback this process can mature and grow, Macromedia took their feedback and improved their product, that speaks volumes about their commitment to the future and to their developers. </RANT> Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 ************************************************************************ ************* Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ************************************************************************ ************* -----Original Message----- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 11:38 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Macromedia.Com (The new site?) Ouch. ZDNet wasn't to kind about macromedia.com. http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2131698,00.html Again, the new version is much better and I hope ZDNet writes a follow-up article on how Macromedia has graciously responded to all the criticism. But I do with Macromedia would stop touting this argument: "When you move from an HTML world into a much richer desktop-oriented world, that's a big change, and people just have difficulty with change," he said. "Any time you change a Web site, there's an initial week or so where people don't feel comfortable yet and you hear a lot of feedback." It's bullshit. If there is one thing that can be said about web developers, is that we are accustomed to change. From the tools we use to the technology, everything changes constantly. We're just critical of the wrong types of change, not change itself. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -----Original Message----- From: Pablo Varando [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 6:53 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Macromedia.Com (The new site?) Well, Macromedia has changed the site with the feedback they received from the community. http://www.macromedia.com Like it better? Worse? They also released a report about what they learned (good and bad) from the first week of the new site. http://www.macromedia.com/special/progress_report/ (This is really interesting... you should read it..) 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