Kevin: I wasn't arguing that code modifications are unnecessary due to (non)comformance to specs. Of course, I agree with you and Deanna that, given how Opera seems to handle this situation, extra code is required.
I was arguing as to whether or not Opera is in compliance with the specs. As you said, if you can assume that a blank value is no value at all, then Opera is, in fact, in compliance. I would argue that, with respect to radio buttons, a radio control (i.e., the set of all radio buttons with the same name) has no value only when none of the radio buttons within that control have been selected. However, a selected radio button that has an empty value still has a value. This is just my understanding of the specs. I guess the real question boils down to whether or not SGML CDATA is allowed to be blank. And since I'm not willing to pony up the cash needed to buy the appropriate specs from ISO, I'm going to leave it with a "this is my opinion, do with it what you will." -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 942-5378 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 1:03 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Opera's handling of radio buttons > > > First off, we need to realize that it doesn't really matter if Opera is > following specs or not because we have to accomodate what's out > there. Given > that, I think it boils down to how you want to define a null value. To my > knowledge, HTML doesn't have a standard for handling null values > in forms as > either a declared "null" or if "" represents an empty bit of text > or a null > or a non-value. As we know, different databases treat it differently as > well. > > Opera is apparently treating "" as no value at all.. And since there is no > value, that radio set is not a successful control because a successful > control needs both a name/value pair. Controls that are not successful are > still legal html, they just don't have to be passed on submit. So as I see > it, Opera is indeed following the specs if you accept that "" is no value. > That's debateable but as I said at the start, it doesn't really > matter. The > only thing that matters is that we know that it could happen and that we > need to account for it. Which is why Deanna thought she'd share. > > -Kevin > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mosh Teitelbaum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 11:29 AM > Subject: RE: Opera's handling of radio buttons > > > > Oh, I believe you. I just don't think that Opera is following > the specs. > > > > You might submit a bug report to them about this. > > > > As to your code, adding a CFPARAM at the top of you code should resolve > any > > problems this issue is causing: > > > > <CFPARAM NAME="mybutton" DEFAULT=""> > > > > <CFIF len(FORM.mybutton)> > > ... > > </CFIF> > > > > -- > > Mosh Teitelbaum > > evoch, LLC > > Tel: (301) 942-5378 > > Fax: (301) 933-3651 > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Deanna Schneider [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 12:25 PM > > > To: CF-Talk > > > Subject: Re: Opera's handling of radio buttons > > > > > > > > > But it doesn't, at least not in Opera. It does in every other browser > I've > > > used. But, Opera just doesn't pass it. Since I've tended to use radio > > > buttons like that when I have a "doesn't matter" choice and then > > > just done a > > > LEN(mybutton) eval on the action page, I'm sure there's other > > > pages of mine > > > out there that will break in Opera. > > > > > > *sigh* > > > -d > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mosh Teitelbaum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 11:19 AM > > > Subject: RE: Opera's handling of radio buttons > > > > > > > > > > Deanna: > > > > > > > > The code you submitted does not necessarily imply a NULL value > > > for a radio > > > > element. A NULL radio element is one in which none of the radio > buttons > > > > have been selected (which is, technically, illegal in HTML). > > > The code you > > > > sent shows a radio button with a value of "" (empty string). > > > If the user > > > > selected that button and submitted the form, the browser should > > > send back > > > > that form element as: > > > > > > > > ele1=val1&mybutton=&ele3=val3 > > > > ^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > > > > that is, the form element "mybutton" with a blank value. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Mosh Teitelbaum > > > > evoch, LLC > > > > Tel: (301) 942-5378 > > > > Fax: (301) 933-3651 > > > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Deanna Schneider [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 11:55 AM > > > > > To: CF-Talk > > > > > Subject: OT: Opera's handling of radio buttons > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a bit off topic, but since it just bit me in the > > > butt, you might > > > > > want to take note. Opera doesn't pass radio buttons with null > > > > > values. So, if > > > > > you have a radio button like this: > > > > > <input type="radio" name="mybutton" value=""> > > > > > And the user selects it, you will not have a form value for it on > your > > > > > action page. Kevin looked it up in the HTML spec, and apparently > > > > > it conforms > > > > > to the spec, as no value = unsuccessful control: > > > > > > > > > > > According the the HTML spec, Opera appears to be > handling the null > > > value > > > > > > radio button correctly. From the relevant parts: > > > > > > > > > > > > 17.2 Controls > > > > > > "When a form is submitted for processing, some controls > have their > > > name > > > > > > paired with their current value and these pairs are > > > submitted with the > > > > > form. > > > > > > Those controls for which name/value pairs are submitted > are called > > > > > > successful controls" > > > > > > > > > > > > "17.13.2 Successful controls > > > > > > A successful control is "valid" for submission. Every successful > > > control > > > > > has > > > > > > its control name paired with its current value as part of the > > > submitted > > > > > form > > > > > > data set. A successful control must be defined within a FORM > element > > > and > > > > > > must have a control name. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Deanna Schneider > > > > > UWEX-Cooperative Extension > > > > > Interactive Media Developer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=i:4:137563 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
