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> > > > Well.... I can think of one REALLY good reason why ASP
> users might
> > > > deal without nifty things like built in HTTP, etc.
> where CF users
> > > > might insist on said functionality:
> > >
> > > > Cost of ASP: $0.00
> > > > Cost of ColdFusion: $1199.95 (From Necx.com)
> >
> > > If you compare the labor costs for training and development for
> > > entry-level and mid-level CF developers vs ASP developers,
> > > that $1199, or the $3000+ that you'd pay for CF Enterprise
> > > Edition, will pay for itself in less than a week, I suspect.
> >
> > I'd like to see some actual statistics backing up that claim.
> > I hear people use this argument all the time. "CF ultimately
> > costs less because it's so much easier to learn and faster to
> > develop applications with." Well, this is definitely not true
> > all of the time, and given that there are so many people out
> > there who know VB (I think VB is still the most widely used
> > programming language in the U.S.), it's not that difficult to
> > find an ASP programmer, or to train someone who already knows VB.
>
> Unfortunately, of course, I don't have any "actual
> statistics". I'm sure
> that's no surprise to you. What I do have is anecdotal
> experience, which you
> might argue is useless. Nevertheless, I'm going to let fly with it.
I *almost* hate to continue this portion of the thread, but.... I'll
swap the subject line & give it a life of its own....
One rather major thing just came to mind which tilts the "cost"
argument back in ASP's favor:
We upgraded all our ASP servers to Win2k with no problems. All of
the code still worked afterwards with no kludging whatsoever. It
truly was a painless upgrade.
Then we tried to upgrade our CF Server to Win2k.... First we find
that 4.0.1 isn't supported under 2k, so there's some more money to
Allaire for a new version just so it works on the current OS, but
anyways....
We try the install and it absolutely DESTROYS our main application.
Everything is locked properly, no code problems that any or our
developers are aware of. Yet within minutes of rebooting the server
with Win2k & CF4.5.1, we start getting PCode errors, random exception
errors, etc. At one point, the CFML parser reported an error on line
4,598,123 or a 200 line file!!
We spent hours on the phone with Allaire tech support, and their
response was, "Sorry... We don't know what's wrong." FORTUNATELY,
we'd broken the mirror of the two drives in that machine before we
started & took out one of the drives as a contingency plan. We
simply had to put the old drive in, sync the other drive back to it,
and we were back to where we started.
At what I pay myself & my staff, that couple of days MORE than made
up for the cost difference in training, and that's to say NOTHING of
two days worth of lost sales!
(And before anyone says, "You should have tested before upgrading a
production server..." We DID. The problems just didn't show up
until you put a production load on it...)
When you add to that the inordinate amount of time I have to spend
kludging CF to make things like CFHTTP, CFMAIL, CFSTOREDPROC, etc.
behave the way they're supposed to behave.... I don't care if you
could teach CF in 30 minutes or less. I still spend more to develop
and maintain a CF app than I do an ASP app. Am I alone on this one?
The only reason I still keep CF around is the tremendous codebase
that was written for it before all of Allaire's little programming
quirks started showing up. If I could translate to ASP or even PHP,
I'd be gone in a heartbeat...
Sorry to bash the language of choice on this list, but I did want to
make that point... Basically, with all of the cost associate with
CF, there's really no excuse for Allaire not to do it RIGHT. It
seems they're more worried about their shareholders than about their
customers....
Best regards,
Zac Bedell
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